AMA Recommends Members To Not Register Until Deadline

While local enforcement of Federal law is interesting, it seems to be far from the topic at hand.

Personally, I think the FAA was smart to bring together a consortium of industry representatives to decide the path for registration. And the AMA was foolish to be the lone dissenter. They are now at odds with the entire industry. And I doubt all of their members are agreed on the matter. The AMA looks like it is stuck in an older age of RC modeling while the rest of the world moves forward.

I know not everyone agrees with registration, but at the end of the day, no one has provided any tangible or realistic reason to avoid it other than as a means of protest on principle. The risk of not registering seems far worse than the risk of registering. I think those in opposition would be better off complying and finding other means to express their grievances.
 
If you'd also like links to 3 different local drone pilots who are facing fines over a grand ($1K) each for failing to fly within the safety guidelines - none of which are being prosecuted by the FAA, I can provide those too.
Please share...
 
I know not everyone agrees with registration, but at the end of the day, no one has provided any tangible or realistic reason to avoid it other than as a means of protest on principle. The risk of not registering seems far worse than the risk of registering. I think those in opposition would be better off complying and finding other means to express their grievances.
How about not agreeing to being restricted to strictly VLOS flying?
That is included in the registration process! :eek:
Why accept that onerous limitation any sooner than February 19th?
 
Hmm, you seem to confuse LEO making arrests for Federal laws, and Federal Courts used for prosecution? Yes, Local LE makes the arrest, and it is tried at a Federa level in a Federal court.

I don't pretend to know more than anyone, but I can use Google better than some, it seems:

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5183&context=faculty_scholarship

State Enforcement of Federal Law | NYU Law Review

If you'd also like links to 3 different local drone pilots who are facing fines over a grand ($1K) each for failing to fly within the safety guidelines - none of which are being prosecuted by the FAA, I can provide those too.

Do post links to the pilots where the pilots are being prosecuted... Also post a link to the statute for what the are being prosecuted for. The local is NOT enforcing FAA regulations.

Your links above does not show the local LEOs have the power to enforcing federal law...Muddy the waters some more... And since you fail to read I'll TL'DR and to quote from the Duke link "States have no inherent power to enforce federal statutory law"
 
Do post links to the pilots where the pilots are being prosecuted... Also post a link to the statute for what the are being prosecuted for. The local is NOT enforcing FAA regulations.

Your links above does not show the local LEOs have the power to enforcing federal law...Muddy the waters some more... And since you fail to read I'll TL'DR and to quote from the Duke link "States have no inherent power to enforce federal statutory law"
Lets lighten it up a little in here. And yes, the FAA has asked local LEO's to help them. They are asked to investigate and call them if needed. While they are not upholding the FAA regs, they are cooperating with them and assisting them until they can arrive on scene if need be. You would think everyone in here had law degrees.

Here's your links - FAA Ramps Up Drone Ban Enforcement by Enlisting State/Local Police Assistance

https://www.faa.gov/uas/regulations_policies/media/FAA_UAS-PO_LEA_Guidance.pdf
 
What's the plan if the court does not have time to respond by February 19th?
Why risk a $25,000 dollar fine and 3 years in jail for something silly like free registration. It's reasonable and the push back is silly. You register to drive, you register to buy a fire arm. The request to register is reasonable in my opinion. Not sure why so much I being made of this.
 
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Clearly the credit card is used to validate your identity. $5 dollars to fly - Jesus that is the cost of a drink. All of this came about because of fools that dos not follow the rules. It continues (how about the moron that flew one over the presidents motor cade ? It's probably going to get worse)
 
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Why risk a $25,000 dollar fine and 3 years in jail for something silly like free registration. It's reasonable and the push back is silly. You register to drive, you register to buy a fire arm. The request to register is reasonable in my opinion. Not sure why so much I being made of this.
The problem isn't that there is a registration, it is more about how laws were skirted to make it happen and they way they chose to implement it is ridiculous. I assume you are not familiar with the prior laws/rules/guidelines that were in place. Education is the only way to slow the people with more money than brains.

"Congress directed that the FAA may not “promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft” P.L. 112-95, section 336(a). In other words, Congress has restricted the FAA from promulgating regulations, from the date when the statute was enacted (2012)."
 
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Please share...
#1) Man charged for Seattle drone crash that knocked woman out

#s 2 & 3) Two drone pilots ticketed for 'Orca Protection Violations'

When I make a statement, I always have the facts to back it up. :cool:

My argument is two fold, you will be detained and investigated by local LEO for an FAA infraction, and it is not just the FAA infractions that can land you in trouble. There are many here who will argue that
only the FAA can charge a person who is in their airspace, but the only precedent set by the infamous Pirker court case is that a drone pilot can be charged for reckless endangerment - a catchall for any type of flying that an LEO can convince a prosecutor was dangerous to the public.
Including flying beyond LOS whether you've registered yet or not...
 
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#1) Man charged for Seattle drone crash that knocked woman out

#s 2 & 3) Two drone pilots ticketed for 'Orca Protection Violations'

When I make a statement, I always have the facts to back it up. :cool:

My argument is two fold, you will be detained and investigated by local LEO for an FAA infraction, and it is not just the FAA infractions that can land you in trouble. There are many here who will argue that
only the FAA can charge a person who is in their airspace, but the only precedent set by the infamous Pirker court case is that a drone pilot can be charged for reckless endangerment - a catchall for any type of flying that an LEO can convince a prosecutor was dangerous to the public.
Including flying beyond LOS whether you've registered yet or not...

I asked for the FEDERAL law these people are being charged with. The Seattle dude is being charges under Seattle's municipal code 12A.06.050 which is Reckless endangerment. This has nothing... Let me type this s l o w l y for you... THIS HAS NOTHING to do with federal statute or FAA rules NOTHING!

And the Orca Protection is a state law... Washington wildlife offers issues the ticket and they are not federal... nor are they enforcing FEDERAL law. As a matter of fact you didn't read the KIRO news artical where is clearly says "Washington state law requires "vessels" and "other objects" to stay at least 200 yards away,..." Again nothing to do with FAA regulations.

Both your links show that state and local LEO are not enforcing federal laws...

SMC Municode Library

RCW title 77 RCW 77.15.740: Protection of southern resident orca whales—Unlawful activities—Penalty.

On a side note I am in the Seattle area and fly my drone an a regular basis... I want to thank you for linking those two as I have been following them. I an not trying to be a hard ***... I take it as a personal failure on my part for not have the ability educating people the difference between state, local and Federal laws and how they are enforced.

I see LuvMyTJ understands.... The local LEOs will work with the FAA in evidence gathering... But they can not enforce anything FAA including asking to see your drone registration. My encounters with LEOs in my area have been very positive... but I think the LEOs around here are some of the most professionals I have ever dealt with and are outstanding people.

To lighten the mood... here's a picture taking with a P3 of 2 WDW police officers a 911 dispatcher and evil drone pilot. Kudos if you have ever seen Rugged Justice :)

18547189472_ddaf48705e_c.jpg
 
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with federal statute or FAA rules NOTHING!
Umm.... yeah. Boy I can't fool you can I?

Hey look at my original post! It says:
"If you'd also like links to 3 different local drone pilots who are facing fines over a grand ($1K) each for failing to fly within the safety guidelines - none of which are being prosecuted by the FAA, I can provide those too.

You seem to be trying to make an argument where there is none. I've made my point.
Sorry it wasn't understood by you.

Even my follow up post further clarifies, and seems like it needs repeating:

My argument is two fold, you will be detained and investigated by local LEO for an FAA infraction, and it is not just the FAA infractions that can land you in trouble. There are many here who will argue that
only the FAA can charge a person who is in their airspace, but the only precedent set by the infamous Pirker court case is that a drone pilot can be charged for reckless endangerment - a catchall for any type of flying that an LEO can convince a prosecutor was dangerous to the public.
Including flying beyond LOS whether you've registered yet or not...
 
Umm.... yeah. Boy I can't fool you can I?

Hey look at my original post!

<snip>
Local law enforcement officers arrest people for Federal offenses daily.
Drugs are a Federal crime enforced at the local level, as are many others.

<snip>

You said that local LEOs can "arrest people for Federal offenses daily". I was pointing out that they can not. It is not within their powers... Now if you do something stupid like hit someone with your quadcopter it will more than likely be that you violated a state or local law. I am not arguing with that. They can charge you with a local or state law BUT not Federal. Now for a local LEO demanding to see your FAA reg. this is outside of their scope... You do not have to show them unless they have a search warrant. This is how this started... Nowhere have you shown me where, as you said, "Local law enforcement officers arrest people for Federal offenses daily" The FAA is a Federal agency and can only be enforced by a Federal agency.

Please don't try to twist what I am pointing out... And I am pointing out that 1) you do not have to show your FAA reg. to local or state LEOs, and 2) State and local LEOs can not enforce Federal laws.
 
You said that local LEOs can "arrest people for Federal offenses daily". I was pointing out that they can not. It is not within their powers... Now if you do something stupid like hit someone with your quadcopter it will more than likely be that you violated a state or local law. I am not arguing with that. They can charge you with a local or state law BUT not Federal. Now for a local LEO demanding to see your FAA reg. this is outside of their scope... You do not have to show them unless they have a search warrant. This is how this started... Nowhere have you shown me where, as you said, "Local law enforcement officers arrest people for Federal offenses daily" The FAA is a Federal agency and can only be enforced by a Federal agency.

Please don't try to twist what I am pointing out... And I am pointing out that 1) you do not have to show your FAA reg. to local or state LEOs, and 2) State and local LEOs can not enforce Federal laws.
LOL, you are twisting what I have said. Purposefully I believe.

Read this: https://www.faa.gov/uas/regulations_policies/media/FAA_UAS-PO_LEA_Guidance.pdf

I'm done with this discussion. I've made my points, you try to twist that and talk about federal vs state courts. I never mentioned the courts, only the first line of enforcement (Local LEOs), I state I can show you non FAA arrests and you then claim I said they were otherwise.

I will show my registration to any local LEO that asks for it and quickly be on my merry way flying.
You on the other hand will be detained by the local LEO until an FAA officer arrives.
My time is more valuable than yours - in fact, I need to attend a C-section right now.
 
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How about not agreeing to being restricted to strictly VLOS flying?
That is included in the registration process! :eek:
Why accept that onerous limitation any sooner than February 19th?

The FAA believes they can enforce VLOS regardless. Either you follow AC91-57a or your drone is treated as an actual aircraft and you get cited for everything your drone is missing as an aircraft. The legality of this is certainly questionable but the Pirker case set the precedent and until it is challenged, it stands.

The registration doesn't obligate you to follow those restrictions any more than you are already bound. Read the wording. It does mean you have acknowledged them which may weaken your case but registered or not, the FAA will still go after for flight beyond VLOS.

So if you're registered, you would be charged with flight beyond VLOS. If you're not registered, you would be charged with flight beyond VLOS AND not being registered.
 
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OK, enough is enough. Gadgetguy, do not respond to GoodnNuff's post and vice a versa.
You obviously can't get along, so from here on out ignore each other. Capeesh?
 
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I'd like to be sure the website is secure and doesn't get hacked... like all gov't websites do. Afterall, they'll have credit card numbers in this database, not just health information. I'll wait.

Or... you can do what I did. if your worried about them being hacked and getting your credit card number.(credit/debit). Register. pay the $5, wait for the credit then have your card re-issued with new number.
 
Silly? :confused:

It isn't "free" if you have to use a personal credit card in your name to "assist in the authentication process" and pay the $5 with the expectation of a credit of $5 at a future time. That is a charge of $5. It also precludes you using any other anonymous method of paying the $5. It also bribes you to register before the deadline of February 19th, by which time legal challenges may have stayed the registration deadline. Once registered, you cannot delete your data from the system. It is permanently stored forever. It isn't worth a $5 credit to register a moment sooner than absolutely necessary! Don't do it!
Wow! I didn't know you had to use a personal credit card. I was gonna go put $10 on a prepaid.. Now Imma have to dedicate a card to pay this only to get it reimbursed back on the card before the Jan 30th. Only to cancel the card after this joke of a registration process is complete.. What a joke..


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Wow! I didn't know you had to use a personal credit card. I was gonna go put $10 on a prepaid.. Now Imma have to dedicate a card to pay this only to get it reimbursed back on the card before the Jan 30th. Only to cancel the card after this joke of a registration process is complete.. What a joke..


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
The personal credit card is only required if you want to take advantage of the "free" registration, which is not "free" but is $5 charged to your personal credit card, with a future $5 credit to be applied by the FAA at some unknown future date. It's a bribe to get you to register now, before February 19, 2016. If you simply forgo the $5 credit entirely, you can simply pay with any $5 gift Visa card on February 19, 2016, assuming that nothing changes between now and then, like a legal challenge, which might stay that date, until the legal challenge can be resolved. Even the AMA strongly advises everyone to wait until legal challenges can be mounted, before registering! There is no rush. It's worth $5 to wait until at least February 19, 2016! :D Unless you got your Phantom for Christmas, you have previously flown it before December 21, 2015, and therefore have absolutely no legal or moral obligation to register before February 19, 2016. Wait until then! Don't be stampeded into this! :rolleyes:
 
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Thanks! I'm new to this as of yesterday, so I'm learning. Thanks for the info, I'll be waiting till 2-19. [emoji41]


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Thanks! I'm new to this as of yesterday, so I'm learning. Thanks for the info, I'll be waiting till 2-19. [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
Hopefully, you flew your Phantom at least once before December 21. You do "remember" doing that, don't you? (Hint! Hint,);)
 

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