Who will register their Phantom with the FAA?

So will you Register your bird with the FAA?

  • Yes, voluntarily

  • Yes if forced to by law

  • No, I ain't getting on that government list


Results are only viewable after voting.
Why wouldn't they be able to get your log files??? If you were to cause a death, they would get them to prosecute you by subpoena. yes?

Once they have a subpoena they will have anything they want pretty much, but without one they would have to hack your ipad/android device or possibly get your quad to puke it's log file out some way. Either of which is illegal without a warrant. My comment made the assumtion your log files would be in your possession and not automatically uploaded to the cloud or something.
 
Currently the fee is either $5 or $10 depending on your paperwork. I think the N# was $10 flat fee. So worse case $20 which isn't bad. We used to be required to get an FCC operators license to fly RC which was cheap but took a few weeks to get. Same scenario now. It's really not a big deal if you don't want it to be.

The requirement for the lettering (unless it changed in the last week) is for UAV/UAS to be as large as is practical. Not hard to come by at all.
Is this a one time payment or yearly.
 
Pretty sure its every 3 yrs
 
[...]
So what's the big deal about this whole registration thing anyways? What is there to really be afraid of?

Simply that doing so actually violates the law! The FAA, and by extension the Dept of Transportation, are specifically prohibited by the law they are using to justify this!

Crazy, yes? The FAA and the DOT are using a novel interpretation of this law saying that because the law mentions it that it now falls under their jurisdiction. It doesn't seem to matter to them that it was mentioned specifically as a carve-out, an exemption, and that the vast majority of UAVs will not be flown over state lines for commercial purposes (which is necessary for federalism to kick in).

So if you follow the law, then you would NOT register (unless maybe you are doing commercial flying), as registration is a regulation, and a regulation is NOT a law but a rule that is supposed to have legal authority derived from laws. Over-reach is when a regulation is made that is not lawful, but can still be enforced by the muzzle of a gun and the threat of sanctions (such as jail time or property confiscation).

That's what registration is, over-reach, as this regulatory scheme doesn't have the authority of law.

To give you an example of how this works, as per the FAA website:

"[...] Individuals flying for hobby or recreation are strongly encouraged to follow safety guidelines, which include: [...] Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles [...]". Ref: Model Aircraft Operations

Of course Class G uncontrolled airspace extends from the ground to 1,200ft AGL in most areas, ground to 700ft AGL near airports with towers or FAA weather reports (though the airport itself MAY be in a different, controlled class of airspace), is nonexistent around some Class E airports (case by case basis) and can go up to 14,500 ft MSL over large unpopulated areas.
Ref:

The FAA doesn't control Class G airspace (that's why it's called uncontrolled airspace), so they have no real jurisdiction unless you fly in the wrong area (like over the Whitehouse, or over a controlled airspace airport), or fly too high and end up in a controlled class of airspace such as Class E airspace, or in the Class B airspace of a large international airport for instance.

BUT, if you are an AMA member the AMA limits flight to 400ft. The AMA is a private organization, BTW.

So to be covered by AMA's insurance program included with membership, in the event of a crash you must have been operating within the AMA rules, including the 400ft AGL ceiling! BTW- this insurance covers the aircraft as well as medical for the pilot, and liability as secondary coverage.

But 400ft is neither law nor is it a regulation but merely a guideline, though it is a rule for AMA members (which is a private organization). But if this 400ft rule WERE a regulation, it would be overreach as there is no legal authority for it as airspace has already been classified by law and by treaty.

If you are going to follow the law then you'd stick to Class G airspace for your flights. Which varies based on location, but goes up to at least 700ft or higher where it does exist (which is everywhere except most airports and other flight restricted areas).

So registration will need to clear the hurdle of the courts and is likely to end up at the Supreme Court (which because it IS an exemption would have to rule against the scheme to maintain integrity, there is no grey area here). While this is happening you can bet the DOT and the FAA will be lobbying Congress to give them that authority, so let your Congressman and your Senators know how you feel about that loudly and often!
 
I'll register my drones if told to do so. I have no problem with that. My car is registered, my business is registered and my professional license is registered. [...]

Not the same!! The examples you give are all local or state requirements, not Federal as this UAV registration scheme is.

The BIGGEST difference, states and local municipalities actually have the authority to require registration and licensing. The FAA and the DOT don't and it's specifically prohibited by law.

Apples and oranges, my friend, apples and oranges!
 
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chase manned aircraft
Wow, where can I buy a drone that can keep up with a manned aircraft going faster than 100 MPH?
 
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The FAA doesn't control Class G airspace (that's why it's called uncontrolled airspace), so they have no real jurisdiction unless you fly in the wrong area (like over the Whitehouse, or over a controlled airspace airport), or fly too high and end up in a controlled class of airspace such as Class E airspace, or in the Class B airspace of a large international airport for instance.
Don't confuse "Uncontrolled" with "Unregulated". There is no unregulated airspace in the US. Uncontrolled airspace simply means that ATC does not provide separation or radar guidance in that airspace. Most often because it's too low for reliable radar coverage.
 
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I'm happy to register with the FAA and welcome the regulation (it's good for everyone)
How?

I am not in the least opposed to making owners of these small aircraft operate them safely. But the proposed registry won't even move the needle on the frequency of reported drone sightings, let alone do anything to curtail irresponsible flights.
 
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How did you register
I already have my registration "In" and have my N# issued. Takes about 10minutes and $10 no big deal. The biggest hassle will be getting the right letters and applying them to the aircraft.

I would imagine IF (and that's a big if LOL) there was enough push that all of your flight information could be gathered "on the fly". Remember everything you see on your screen is being broadcast through the air from your aircraft in a 360deg pattern. All you would need is a device able to capture, interpret and display that information. I bet if the FAA/DOT mandated this be allowable that the manufacturer would give them the specs they need to harvest such information on the fly. I don't know it's 100% possible now but in the words of Mythbusters... I'd call it very plausible.
 
Simply that doing so actually violates the law! The FAA, and by extension the Dept of Transportation, are specifically prohibited by the law they are using to justify this!

Crazy, yes? The FAA and the DOT are using a novel interpretation of this law saying that because the law mentions it that it now falls under their jurisdiction. It doesn't seem to matter to them that it was mentioned specifically as a carve-out, an exemption, and that the vast majority of UAVs will not be flown over state lines for commercial purposes (which is necessary for federalism to kick in).

So if you follow the law, then you would NOT register (unless maybe you are doing commercial flying), as registration is a regulation, and a regulation is NOT a law but a rule that is supposed to have legal authority derived from laws. Over-reach is when a regulation is made that is not lawful, but can still be enforced by the muzzle of a gun and the threat of sanctions (such as jail time or property confiscation).

That's what registration is, over-reach, as this regulatory scheme doesn't have the authority of law.

To give you an example of how this works, as per the FAA website:

"[...] Individuals flying for hobby or recreation are strongly encouraged to follow safety guidelines, which include: [...] Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles [...]". Ref: Model Aircraft Operations

Of course Class G uncontrolled airspace extends from the ground to 1,200ft AGL in most areas, ground to 700ft AGL near airports with towers or FAA weather reports (though the airport itself MAY be in a different, controlled class of airspace), is nonexistent around some Class E airports (case by case basis) and can go up to 14,500 ft MSL over large unpopulated areas.
Ref:

The FAA doesn't control Class G airspace (that's why it's called uncontrolled airspace), so they have no real jurisdiction unless you fly in the wrong area (like over the Whitehouse, or over a controlled airspace airport), or fly too high and end up in a controlled class of airspace such as Class E airspace, or in the Class B airspace of a large international airport for instance.

BUT, if you are an AMA member the AMA limits flight to 400ft. The AMA is a private organization, BTW.

So to be covered by AMA's insurance program included with membership, in the event of a crash you must have been operating within the AMA rules, including the 400ft AGL ceiling! BTW- this insurance covers the aircraft as well as medical for the pilot, and liability as secondary coverage.

But 400ft is neither law nor is it a regulation but merely a guideline, though it is a rule for AMA members (which is a private organization). But if this 400ft rule WERE a regulation, it would be overreach as there is no legal authority for it as airspace has already been classified by law and by treaty.

If you are going to follow the law then you'd stick to Class G airspace for your flights. Which varies based on location, but goes up to at least 700ft or higher where it does exist (which is everywhere except most airports and other flight restricted areas).

So registration will need to clear the hurdle of the courts and is likely to end up at the Supreme Court (which because it IS an exemption would have to rule against the scheme to maintain integrity, there is no grey area here). While this is happening you can bet the DOT and the FAA will be lobbying Congress to give them that authority, so let your Congressman and your Senators know how you feel about that loudly and often!

This is a very imaginative interpretation of the law and FAA jurisdiction. I wouldn't want to be the one testing it.
 
How?

I am not in the least opposed to making owners of these small aircraft operate them safely. But the proposed registry won't even move the needle on the frequency of reported drone sightings, let alone do anything to curtail irresponsible flights.

Adding more government power is equal to diminishing personal liberty. Im all for having safe airspace, and most pilots treat safe flying as honorable. After all if they want to be respected by there peers, doing unsafe things wont get that. In the model world serious modelers live by the same. Pilots who do stupid things and risk others lives/limbs are not respected. Often dis'd by the pilot community. Steve is correct, that registration will do nothing but spend the taxpayers money and show how our elected politicians do not take responsibility or have accountability for laws/regs they pass.
 
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I slapped a few letters and numbers on my phantom... you wouldn't believe all the thumbs up at the park! The numbers somehow make them feel much better now.

Also... sense I feel like I'm a 'pilot' now... I wear an American Airlines looking pilot hat.. .makes me feel like I'm a real pilot and that I am actually piloting.
 
Adding more government power is equal to diminishing personal liberty. Im all for having safe airspace, and most pilots treat safe flying as honorable. After all if they want to be respected by there peers, doing unsafe things wont get that. In the model world serious modelers live by the same. Pilots who do stupid things and risk others lives/limbs are not respected. Often dis'd by the pilot community. Steve is correct, that registration will do nothing but spend the taxpayers money and show how our elected politicians do not take responsibility or have accountability for laws/regs they pass.

Actually if this issue of airspace use were treated in a similar manner to how the radio frequency spectrum is used, we already have a very workable handling to allow multiple use of this national resource in harmony.

The FCC licenses radio operators and require that at the very least they know how to use the frequency band responsibility. But a ham operator is not required to register any of the radios he buys, builds or modifies, only to be licensed in their use. And if a device that emits radio waves is intended to be used by an unlicensed individual then it needs to get a FCC ID per Part 15 of the regulations before it can be sold, though there are allowances for like/kind operation on some types of equipment.

The FAA is treating this as business as usual and that a $800 Phantom with a weight limit of 2kg is the same as a multi-passenger Cessna 192 (as an example) and needs to be regulated directly. And in that VERY same sense, the Phantom operator is more akin to a ham radio operator then to the pilot of that Cessna 192! And though there is some crossover, the workload of the guy at the controls of the Cessna is materially different than that of the guy at the controls of the Phantom quad, which are simply matters of physics, perspective AND mindset...

So a UAV with a very small weight limit is more akin to a ham radio than to a Cessna 192! And its use in the airspace (seen here as a national resource) is more akin to using a radio in the national frequency spectrum than flying full scale aircraft.

And just as you have with FCC licensing, there would be different levels depending on the requirements of the operator, up to an including commercial use (as the FCC already does now).

Most of this could be constructed under the current framework of law, though there would need to be some adjustments to make it easier.

It's amazing how bullheaded the DOT and FAA officials are on this when the solution on where to start is SO simple - instead of concentrating on the similarities, work it thru based on the differences!
 

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