Still photo bad quality from P4P+ camera

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Hi,
Would you please advise me how to get good quality photos from a camera mounted on P4P+ drone?
We purchased it lately and I am surprised why pictures are so bad quality.
Yes, ISO automatically set to 1600, so we changed it to ISO400, but pictures contain so much noise that I believe we do something wrong.
May it be that we see/read-only thumbnails from DNG whereas full resolution picture is hidden inside the file?
 
I set mine to ISO100 / automatic and let the camera do the rest. When done flying, I take the SD card out, put in my MAC and transfer the files. Works great for me.
 
May it be that we see/read-only thumbnails from DNG whereas full resolution picture is hidden inside the file?
That is the usual explanation when people complain about the picture quality.
Look at the pixel size of your images to find out.
Are they 5472 x 3648 .. or are they little 900 (approx) pixel preview images>
 
Are you a photographer? I mean a real photographer that knows how to use a DSLR and lenses and knowledgeable about maintaining image quality? Do you shoot in RAW and know how to use Photoshop or other sophisticated editing software? Just asking to know your experience level before I offer any advice.
 
I had the same in automatic mode mostly in cloudy/misty kind of weather. With ISO200 or less somehow i don’t have this noise. I’m not a photographer but this seemed to be the solution.
 
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I set mine to ISO100 / automatic and let the camera do the rest. When done flying, I take the SD card out, put in my MAC and transfer the files. Works great for me.
Thank you MrMagus. We tried using ISO100 and that is clear. What do you mean MAC? Thanks!
 
That is the usual explanation when people complain about the picture quality.
Look at the pixel size of your images to find out.
Are they 5472 x 3648 .. or are they little 900 (approx) pixel preview images>

Thank you for the response. Well, on MacBook preview is much better, i.e. full resolution. However, in programs like IrfanView or native windows viewers, it shows only low-res. It looks like the first thing we need to do is to set ISO100/200 as it affects the quality. The result of low-res display is something else...
 
Are you a photographer? I mean a real photographer that knows how to use a DSLR and lenses and knowledgeable about maintaining image quality? Do you shoot in RAW and know how to use Photoshop or other sophisticated editing software? Just asking to know your experience level before I offer any advice.

Thank you JeffreyS for your comment. No, I am not. I am an engineer, with some experience in photography, so I am getting the technical language, however, my experience is limited as far as image processing is concerned. Any advice would be highly appreciated, even high tech language - I can manage it :).
In this case we wanted to make things as simple as possible - that is why we purchased DJI P4P+ - and of course, I understand that we need to learn how to use it properly - it is why I am here and asking for help. Thank you in advance!

In the past, I was using NIKON DSLRs but ages ago - in regular 35mm pictures times, then winds of life moved me away from this hobby. Sometimes I think life was easier at that time. I have great pictures from late 90's and early 2000. Then digital revolution expanded and those winds... you know :)
 
Thank you for the response. Well, on MacBook preview is much better, i.e. full resolution. However, in programs like IrfanView or native windows viewers, it shows only low-res. It looks like the first thing we need to do is to set ISO100/200 as it affects the quality. The result of low-res display is something else...
Not all graphics software will be able to display the raw image files.
The raw image files contain a small jpg preview image.
That's what IrfanView etc is showing you.
 
MaciekRyd,

I started back in the 35mm film days as well, and the digital camera was a little bit of a learning curve, mostly as far as printing in a darkroom to playing in Photoshop, but it really is not that different.

As far as I can tell all the current Adobe products (Elements, Lightroom, Photoshop) all have Camera Raw included. The price on elements looks like its $99, Lightroom and Photoshop both are monthly at $10 in the creative cloud. If you are shooting images in the RAW format (dng as the P4P saves it) using Adobe Camera Raw will allow you to manipulate the image to its fullest potential. Think of it this way, jpeg is the print, and RAW is the negative. Once I have the print, any copy of it, or manipulation of it is going to look blah at best because its a copy of a copy. On the other hand if I have the negative in hand, I can process it any way I wish and each copy is an original. Usually RAW images have a jpeg preview so you have an idea which image to select to work on. Probably the single best thing about RAW is that it is non-destructive editing, whereas editing a jpeg is destructive and all changes are forever and each time you save it, you recompress it again and again. In the event you decide you have screwed up a RAW edit to the point of no return, you simply delete the sidecar (xmp) file, and start over.

In general the RAW format will give you the ability to take an image and change the exposure after it is shot up to 5 stops over or under. I would always say get it right in the camera, but if you are 1/2 stop over or under, the raw format can help you tweak it to just the perfect spot. You can also change saturation, shadows, highlights, color temp, tint, crop and so much more. The best piece of advice I ever got when it came to editing photos was go "1/3 of too far", so in other words, when you move the saturation slider, when you feel you went "too far" go back 1/3 and that is usually right. One thing to remember is that in RAW, it's the sensor data directly from the sensor, so it always looks flat and unprocessed. Same thing for a contact print from 35mm film, but once you start adding the primary light colors, you can manipulate the general look of the image.

As far as noise goes, the higher the ISO, the more noise is introduced into the image. Think of the sensor as thousands of little buckets, when a bucket is full, that pixel is properly exposed. In low light, there are not enough photons to fill the bucket, raising the ISO raises the bottom of the bucket so less photons are needed to fill it. This means less information is in each bucket, so you get grain. That's kind of an abstract way to imagine it. Exposure is a triangle, when you change one side, you must change another to create a balanced equation (a triangle has to equal 180 degrees). So when you lower ISO, you either have to open the aperture or lengthen you shutter speed. The cameras on the P4P, has a nice enough sensor, but it is still gimbal stabilized, so you still get movement in the camera, so if the shutter speed is too slow, you get motion blur. Its a fine balance on a moving platform of any kind. Sometimes the only solution left is to increase the light.

It sounds far more intimidating then it is. Once you learn the basics, its cake. There are a ton of tutorials on Youtube, but if you are an engineer, I think the interface is fairly intuitive and mostly self explanatory. Shooting RAW adds one more step in the process, but at the end of the day it makes for a better image.
 
MaciekRyd,

I started back in the 35mm film days as well, and the digital camera was a little bit of a learning curve, mostly as far as printing in a darkroom to playing in Photoshop, but it really is not that different.

As far as I can tell all the current Adobe products (Elements, Lightroom, Photoshop) all have Camera Raw included. The price on elements looks like its $99, Lightroom and Photoshop both are monthly at $10 in the creative cloud. If you are shooting images in the RAW format (dng as the P4P saves it) using Adobe Camera Raw will allow you to manipulate the image to its fullest potential. Think of it this way, jpeg is the print, and RAW is the negative. Once I have the print, any copy of it, or manipulation of it is going to look blah at best because its a copy of a copy. On the other hand if I have the negative in hand, I can process it any way I wish and each copy is an original. Usually RAW images have a jpeg preview so you have an idea which image to select to work on. Probably the single best thing about RAW is that it is non-destructive editing, whereas editing a jpeg is destructive and all changes are forever and each time you save it, you recompress it again and again. In the event you decide you have screwed up a RAW edit to the point of no return, you simply delete the sidecar (xmp) file, and start over.

In general the RAW format will give you the ability to take an image and change the exposure after it is shot up to 5 stops over or under. I would always say get it right in the camera, but if you are 1/2 stop over or under, the raw format can help you tweak it to just the perfect spot. You can also change saturation, shadows, highlights, color temp, tint, crop and so much more. The best piece of advice I ever got when it came to editing photos was go "1/3 of too far", so in other words, when you move the saturation slider, when you feel you went "too far" go back 1/3 and that is usually right. One thing to remember is that in RAW, it's the sensor data directly from the sensor, so it always looks flat and unprocessed. Same thing for a contact print from 35mm film, but once you start adding the primary light colors, you can manipulate the general look of the image.

As far as noise goes, the higher the ISO, the more noise is introduced into the image. Think of the sensor as thousands of little buckets, when a bucket is full, that pixel is properly exposed. In low light, there are not enough photons to fill the bucket, raising the ISO raises the bottom of the bucket so less photons are needed to fill it. This means less information is in each bucket, so you get grain. That's kind of an abstract way to imagine it. Exposure is a triangle, when you change one side, you must change another to create a balanced equation (a triangle has to equal 180 degrees). So when you lower ISO, you either have to open the aperture or lengthen you shutter speed. The cameras on the P4P, has a nice enough sensor, but it is still gimbal stabilized, so you still get movement in the camera, so if the shutter speed is too slow, you get motion blur. Its a fine balance on a moving platform of any kind. Sometimes the only solution left is to increase the light.

It sounds far more intimidating then it is. Once you learn the basics, its cake. There are a ton of tutorials on Youtube, but if you are an engineer, I think the interface is fairly intuitive and mostly self explanatory. Shooting RAW adds one more step in the process, but at the end of the day it makes for a better image.

RLE_Mark, THANK YOU! :)
 
It would be helpful if you'd upload an example photo so I can see what you are seeing.

My screens may look slightly different than yours, but it should be pretty close. Since I'm not sure what your skill level is, I went through all the steps.

There are lots of ways to set up to shot photos, but here's one to try if you'd like.
First set up your camera this way and using JPEG, Color=Normal, Style=Standard. For White Balance, keep it simple. If it's sunny out then choose Sunny. If it's cloudy then choose Cloudy.

109919


Now in the Camera window, select the A (aperture priority). This means you'll change the aperture and the camera will change the shutter speed to match whatever you've set the EV to. In this case, I've set the EV to +0.3, which is slightly overexposed. In your case, set the EV to 0. You change the EV by clicking on the + or -. Now that you've set the EV, you can slide the aperture back and forth until you get a shutter speed you want. I typically keep my shutter speed above 1/30 and keep my aperture between f/2.8 and f/6.3. And again here is someplace for you to explore. The other place you can adjust is ISO. By setting a higher ISO, it will increase the shutter speed. Remember that the higher the ISO, the more noise you'll have in your photograph.
109920


Next, make sure you have the focus mode set to AF and click on the screen where you want the focus to be. Now take your picture.
109921


Now you'll want to take the MicroSD card out of the drone and put it in your computer's card reader. It'll look like this.
109922


This is where you'll find your JPEGS. I'm on a Mac so if you're on Windows, it may look different. I'm also sending you links in conversation that I think will help you as well. I hope this helps get you started and let me know how it goes!
 

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