pin prick solves swelled battery problem !!

[ribjig]

Three new responses should scare ANY
owner of lipo since all three seem to have
nothing to do with purposeful PROPER
pricking of swelled lipo, followed by
covering with electrical tape...?

 

[Weston Ney]

Pricking a lipo IS NOT PROPER! [emoji2357]

Three new responses should scare ANY
owner of lipo since all three seem to have
nothing to do with purposeful PROPER
pricking of swelled lipo, followed by
covering with electrical tape...?

 

[solentlife]

Three new responses should scare ANY
owner of lipo since all three seem to have
nothing to do with purposeful PROPER
pricking of swelled lipo, followed by
covering with electrical tape...?

Can I suggest that UNSAFE advice be curtailed ?

What is that saying "You can lead a horse to water .... but you cannot get it to drink ?"

Lets be clear : LiPo factorys have strict production cleanliness procedures that also involve for construction of the cells / seal and wrap in controlled environmental chambers. There is specific reason for this.

Putting a hole in a puffed LiPo compromises that exact procedure and risks the LiPo igniting.

FACT.

Put another way : Plenty of evidence online and printed saying that puffed / punctured LiPo's are dangerous and should be dealt with safely.
Some idiot mobile phone repair guy shows Darwinism in pricking LiIon cell pouch and manages to get away with it .... and that means the rest of the world as well as LiPo manufacturers are all wrong ???

Here's an account of an actual event I was party to :

I needed a new phone battery for my 'Hero' ... and was in Guanzhou China. My local ops guy took me to a store where he reckoned they could MAKE a battery pack for me.
The store guy opened the phone, removed the old battery and measured it. Opened a STEEL draw and selected SEALED cells of the correct size. He proceeded to create a pack and it was completely evident that he was taking EXTREME care in handling those cells and how he soldered ...
He soldered / joined and wrapped the pack and inserted into the phone - which came to life... but I was told to make sure I charged it properly.
But here is an interesting bit ... my old battery he placed in a foil bag, closed it and dropped it into a heavy STEEL bin with a heavy lid. That bin was right next to a second exit to the back yard ...

My point in telling this :

1. Was his respect and care for the cells that were PRE-sealed and kept in a steel drawer
2. His caution in having his old battery bin not only separating the batterys but near to a door he could push out into the yard.

That was in China ... the so-called nobody cares about HSE country !!

 

[bdooley]

Can I suggest that UNSAFE advice be curtailed ?

What is that saying "You can lead a horse to water .... but you cannot get it to drink ?"

Lets be clear : LiPo factorys have strict production cleanliness procedures that also involve for construction of the cells / seal and wrap in controlled environmental chambers. There is specific reason for this.

Putting a hole in a puffed LiPo compromises that exact procedure and risks the LiPo igniting.

FACT.

Put another way : Plenty of evidence online and printed saying that puffed / punctured LiPo's are dangerous and should be dealt with safely.
Some idiot mobile phone repair guy shows Darwinism in pricking LiIon cell pouch and manages to get away with it .... and that means the rest of the world as well as LiPo manufacturers are all wrong ???

Here's an account of an actual event I was party to :

I needed a new phone battery for my 'Hero' ... and was in Guanzhou China. My local ops guy took me to a store where he reckoned they could MAKE a battery pack for me.
The store guy opened the phone, removed the old battery and measured it. Opened a STEEL draw and selected SEALED cells of the correct size. He proceeded to create a pack and it was completely evident that he was taking EXTREME care in handling those cells and how he soldered ...
He soldered / joined and wrapped the pack and inserted into the phone - which came to life... but I was told to make sure I charged it properly.
But here is an interesting bit ... my old battery he placed in a foil bag, closed it and dropped it into a heavy STEEL bin with a heavy lid. That bin was right next to a second exit to the back yard ...

My point in telling this :

1. Was his respect and care for the cells that were PRE-sealed and kept in a steel drawer
2. His caution in having his old battery bin not only separating the batterys but near to a door he could push out into the yard.

That was in China ... the so-called nobody cares about HSE country !!

Agreed. In fact I am unfollowing this thread. This has been discussed over and over everywhere. The OP asked for advice and because he did not get the advice he was looking for is undecided. Maybe this was a troll.

Peace out.

 

[BigAl07]

The "Puffing" isn't the problem... the degradation of the battery produces the "Gas" which then causes the Puffing. By releasing the trapped gas you're just solving the "puffing" which is a symptom. The actual gas inside the battery is a by-product of electrolyte decomposition. This happens the whole life of the LiPo but can be accelerated from battery abuse and mistakes by the operator. This "Gas" is called Oxygen (O2) so it's not an Oxygen free environment once the battery is placed into service.

Also it's important to note that:

A) the performance requirements of a smartphone and a sUAS are as similar as a lemon and a rock. One does not equal the other.

B) The battery of your sUAS is a Single Failure Point.... meaning if you have an issue with it the aircraft falls to the ground like a dead duck. Why in the world would you risk it and why in the world would you go online to a forum and even remotely suggest it?

C) Look at it like a tire with a swollen "KNOT" on the side. Would you puncture a hole in the tire to reduce the KNOT and simply put adhesive of the hole you created "hoping it would hold up"?

It needs to be noted for ANYONE reading this thread in the future... this is absolutely a HORRIBLE idea and not considered safe or practical by anyone with a reasonable amount of experience with LiPo battery technology. If you're going to attempt this type of stunt do so in a wide open area so that a Falling Drone doesn't pose a threat to anyone around. Pin-Prick & Tape are a very short term attempt at a solution and not one to be done by the inexperienced.

 

[solentlife]

Worth reading this :

Toxic fluoride gas emissions from lithium-ion battery fires - PMC

Lithium-ion battery fires generate intense heat and considerable amounts of gas and smoke. Although the emission of toxic gases can be a larger threat than the heat, the knowledge of such emissions is limited. This paper presents quantitative ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The gases that are produced by an abused battery and causing Puffing are actually quite a number and when vented - some are highly toxic, even more so if they ignite.
The article concentrates on ignited events of a LiIon - but reading it carefully - it does state the gases without fire.

Another University study :

Lithium-ion batteries found to produce toxic gases

Lithium-ion batteries can produce dozens of dangerous gases when overheated, according to a new study from the Institute of NBC Defence and Tsinghua University in China.

eandt.theiet.org

Does it really need any more evidence ???

 

[ribjig]

> The OP asked for advice and because he did not get the advice he was
> looking for is undecided. Maybe this was a troll.

a. OP is not troll (getting at the REAL truth imitates trolling??)
b. OP has decided:
1. began process of getting new batteries
2. after #1 completes, may "safely" prick swelled
battery, use it only to start drone & hover **foot off
ground several times, then recharge several times
to verify predictions in this thread that battery
will soon become non-functional...
**is it possible to activate propellers without lifting off...?

 

[Oso]

I do agree with the many posts about the dangers of doing this to a LIPO.

That being said, I do want to thank you guys. Ever since this thread first posted last week (Thursday afternoon US time), I have been singing Comfortably Numb (Pink Floyd) around the house. I see "pin prick" in the thread title, and in my head I immediately hear Roger Waters singing, "Okay, okay okay. Just a little pin prick....." I sing it out loud, and then I put on Dark Side of the Moon. It's playing right now in the background. Nice.

 

[solentlife]

I do agree with the many posts about the dangers of doing this to a LIPO.

That being said, I do want to thank you guys. Ever since this thread first posted last week (Thursday afternoon US time), I have been singing Comfortably Numb (Pink Floyd) around the house. I see "pin prick" in the thread title, and in my head I immediately hear Roger Waters singing, "Okay, okay okay. Just a little pin prick....." I sing it out loud, and then I put on Dark Side of the Moon. It's playing right now in the background. Nice.

My car has presently :Wish you were here" CD in the player ... so Shine On you Crazy Diamond comes to mind !!

Comfortably Numb ?

Of course "Brain Damage" may have some relevance ??

 

[ribjig]

> I hear Roger Waters singing, "Okay, okay okay. Just a little pin prick

I hear John Lennon:
imagine saving lipos
its easy if you try
a pin & tape extends life
no dumping batteries sky high

 

[solentlife]

> I hear Roger Waters singing, "Okay, okay okay. Just a little pin prick

I hear John Lennon:
imagine saving lipos
its easy if you try
help save our planet
don't dump lipos sky high

And of course Monty Python's .... "he's gone to join the Choir invisible ...... "

 

[Weston Ney]

Me: Do I hear music? Yes I do! And a bright light!
Everyone else here: I hear it too!
Me: at least we are all going to the same place!
ribjig: I don't hear anything.

> I hear Roger Waters singing, "Okay, okay okay. Just a little pin prick

I hear John Lennon:
imagine long living lipos
its easy if you try
a pin & tape saves our planet
from dumping lipos sky high

 

[Deleted member 62848]

> I hear Roger Waters singing, "Okay, okay okay. Just a little pin prick

I hear John Lennon:
imagine saving lipos
its easy if you try
a pin & tape extends life
no dumping batteries sky high

*come in here boy have a cigar your gonna go far,your gonna fly high,*ha, wow your very fixed on pricking your battery so just do it and record,,I am hanging to watch,,I bet once you prick it ,first thing you will do is say phew that stinks,and then good luck,,me is almost lost for words on this,,just buy a new battery so your drone not at risk,,either you have some comprehension problem to understand risk or you just stiring the pot,all these pilots don't say it cause they bored,it comes from past and previous hands on experience,,you seem very clever but this case of prick and band aid don't cut..trust your instinct

 

[Weston Ney]

At this point why don't you just smash it with a hammer. You don't care for safety and you were going to do it anyway.

> I hear Roger Waters singing, "Okay, okay okay. Just a little pin prick

I hear John Lennon:
imagine saving lipos
its easy if you try
a pin & tape extends life
no dumping batteries sky high

 

[ribjig]

update.
phone tech (mentioned in OP) says
in 20 yrs of degassing hundreds of
swelled phone batteries only (3) caught
fire at moment of pricking & it was due
to glue by which batteries are attached
to phone, not triggered within pricked battery;
he also said chances of battery fire much
greater at pricking or pre-pricking & that
after pricking battery fire chances are
greatly reduced; also a swelled DJI battery
can bend connections, crack drone chamber, etc.
yes, gassed battery is dying but degassing does
NOT speed up dying; therefore I decided to have
tech prick my bloated battery -- it had to be done
on both sides as they seemed independent;
spinning tip of exacto knife, he left holes
too small to see, one can be felt; now
charging slimmed battery; am also
awaiting new batteries from DJI...
my concern now is whether or not
degassed battery pinhole whilst in
flight will release enough volatile gas
to cause issues in an ?enclosed? chamber
if chamber has no airflow...

 

[solentlife]

I give up .....

The Phone Tech is an idiot - simple. He even talks about fires !

As to using a pricked battery in your DJI .... I would NEVER risk it ......

In summer a DJI battery can come out reasonably hot .... guess what that pin prick will allow ??

I must stop checking out this thread - I cannot believe what I read ...

 

[Deleted member 62848]

I give up .....

The Phone Tech is an idiot - simple. He even talks about fires !

As to using a pricked battery in your DJI .... I would NEVER risk it ......

In summer a DJI battery can come out reasonably hot .... guess what that pin prick will allow ??

I must stop checking out this thread - I cannot believe what I read ...

Yeh you and me both....pre picking is a new one,,,I'd say 3 only is a estimate, how many things went wrong back home,,of course that's just speculation but I'm dumb founded on this ,,oh well ,,we must be all wrong in our comments,,cant say we not try and I thought I was stubborn
Better get 911 on speed dial.....please no disrespect to you @ribjig ,you only following what you been told,cant say it's a safe practice in any shape or form

 

[dronesky]

I thought I was stubborn
Better get 911 on speed dial

?

 

[Weston Ney]

WHAT THE HECK! 3 fires is three fires too many! I hope your drone goes down in flames just so you learn a lesson! (And please don't start a forest fire...)

update.
phone tech (mentioned in OP) says
in 20 yrs of degassing hundreds of
swelled phone batteries only (3) caught
fire at moment of pricking & it was due
to glue by which batteries are attached
to phone, not triggered within pricked battery;
he also said chances of battery fire much
greater at pricking or pre-pricking & that
after pricking battery fire chances are
greatly reduced; also a swelled DJI battery
can bend connections, crack drone chamber, etc.
yes, gassed battery is dying but degassing does
NOT speed up dying; therefore I decided to have
tech prick my bloated battery -- it had to be done
on both sides as they seemed independent;
spinning tip of exacto knife, he left holes
too small to see, one can be felt; now
charging slimmed battery; am also
awaiting new batteries from DJI...
my concern now is whether or not
degassed battery pinhole whilst in
flight will release enough volatile gas
to cause issues in an ?enclosed? chamber
if chamber has no airflow...

 

[solentlife]

I don't always agree with mods on here .... but BigA107 posted this and I hope that all new owners, those who care for community and safety take heed :

It needs to be noted for ANYONE reading this thread in the future... this is absolutely a HORRIBLE idea and not considered safe or practical by anyone with a reasonable amount of experience with LiPo battery technology. If you're going to attempt this type of stunt do so in a wide open area so that a Falling Drone doesn't pose a threat to anyone around. Pin-Prick & Tape are a very short term attempt at a solution and not one to be done by the inexperienced.

I would also add :

Even flying in an open area away from houses / people etc. can lead to serious consequences.
We are reading daily about terrible fires not only in California but in other areas of the world. Imagine a LiPo fire and any RC model with that - the resulting fire in brushland, forest, open dry field, cornfield anywhere that could burn - is something I dread to imagine.

To anyone reading this thread : PLEASE DO NOT PIN PRICK OR OTHERWISE PHYSICALLY ABUSE / MODIFY ANY BATTERY PARTICULARLY LITHIUM BASED - THE CONSEQUENCES CAN BE CATASTROPHIC AND CERTAINLY OUT OF YOUR MEANS TO CONTROL.

I think moderators should close this thread with a STRONGLY worded final post stating clearly NOT TO DO IT ...