Photographing crowds from a distance?

[eoren1]

Hi,

Trying to figure out if this is legal under 107. A high school football game takes place. I fly my drone up and hover over the high school building. I take a photo of the gathered crowd from 100' up. I then turn around and land.

I never fly 'over' people. Distance to nearest person is approximately 80'.

Thoughts?

 

[With The Birds]

Where I am the minimum distance to be maintained from persons not directly involved in operating the AC is 30m (approx 98ft). You would need permission from the school and insurance would be highly recommended.

 

[BigAl07]

It depends on where you take off from. Is it school property? Do you have permission? Will it interfere with any other operations happening or that could be happening? Air MediVac? Public Safety have a UAS on scene?

Also just because you "can" do something doesn't mean it's the best idea. You have to keep in mind What If... what if you clip a wire/cable? What if you lose a prop? What happens if you lose signal and the AC suddenly zooms to RTH altitude etc?

Keep in mind if something happens and there is an "incident" you will be held liable regardless what your best intentions are.

 

[eoren1]

Thanks With the Birds,

That's the first I've heard of a minimum distance rule. I can't find it in 107 or elsewhere in regards to UAS.

 

[eoren1]

It depends on where you take off from. Is it school property? Do you have permission? Will it interfere with any other operations happening or that could be happening? Air MediVac? Public Safety have a UAS on scene?

Also just because you "can" do something doesn't mean it's the best idea. You have to keep in mind What If... what if you clip a wire/cable? What if you lose a prop? What happens if you lose signal and the AC suddenly zooms to RTH altitude etc?

Keep in mind if something happens and there is an "incident" you will be held liable regardless what your best intentions are.

Good questions BigAl,

Take off is on school property. Had not thought to pursue permission but good idea. No other operations in the air. School building is boringly rectangular without any wires.

 

[BigAl07]

Schools can be very UN supportive of UAS operations especially if you aren't part of an existing photography operation. Remember they are worried about liability as well as student identity issues. Even though those worries are completely unfounded they are REAL and something you want to address up front.

 

[eoren1]

I searched a bit more about flying over schools and found Columbia University has an explicit no-fly statement. That doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere.

I read through the 107 rules again and see nothing about flying near people.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic and I understand the need to be vigilant and consider all potential circumstances, I just don't see a rule out there that would prohibit this. But please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[eoren1]

Looks like Louisiana put out a law forbidding use of drones over schools - Drones and Schools Do Not Mix

Not sure about other states...

 

[BigAl07]

I searched a bit more about flying over schools and found Columbia University has an explicit no-fly statement. That doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere.

I read through the 107 rules again and see nothing about flying near people.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic and I understand the need to be vigilant and consider all potential circumstances, I just don't see a rule out there that would prohibit this. But please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Flying over people is flying over people whether at a school, a stadium, or at the local park. It's prohibited and just bad form period. Our off the shelf UAS have ZERO redundancy and several "single points of failure". Lose an ESC, a prop, battery or anything and the UAS comes hurdling down with no control what so ever.

With all due respect THIS is an indication in the lack of knowledge being acquired for Part 107. People are studying to pass the test as opposed to learning the subject matter required to do this type of operation in a safe, legal, and ethical manner. I'm not making this about you @eoren specifically this just indicates how the system is failing all of us as it is right now.

If you have your Part 107 certificate then surely at some point in your studying you can across this tidbit of information:
You can’t fly a small UAS over anyone who is not directly participating in the operation, not under a covered structure, or not inside a covered stationary vehicle. No operations from a moving vehicle are allowed unless you are flying over a sparsely populated area.
Fact Sheet – Small Unmanned Aircraft Regulations (Part 107)
For Immediate Release
June 21, 2016
Contact: Les Dorr or Alison Duquette
Phone: 202-267-3883

And here is another one stating the same information just in a different format:

Flying for Work/Business (Part 107)
Operating Rules:

• Class G airspace*
• Must keep the aircraft in sight (visual line-of-sight)*
• Must fly under 400 feet*
• Must fly during the day*
• Must fly at or below 100 mph*
• Must yield right of way to manned aircraft*
• Must NOT fly over people*
• Must NOT fly from a moving vehicle*
  * All of these rules are subject to waiver
  

This is an action that "Could" be allowed via their Waiver Process listed as

• Operation over people (§ 107.39)

Don't get your hopes up about getting this particular Waiver as it's only been issued a few times since Aug 2016 and only for very specific aircraft and operations. Details about the Waiver process can be found and studied here:
Beyond the Basics


Here are some additional links that might be worth looking over:
Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions
Unmanned Aircraft Systems


Good luck and SAFE flights always
Allen

 

[eoren1]

Thanks BigAl,

But my point is that I would never be flying OVER people. I would be 85 feet away from them.

In windless conditions, even with a catastrophic prop failure, I can’t believe the drone would fly forward 85 feet. Also any RTH failsafe would send the drone up and back (away from the crowd).

I’ll email the FAA via the knowbeforeyoufly site

 

[BigAl07]

Contact your FSDO directly and they can answer it directly. In effect they will be the ones to make the final determination should something happen anyway.

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks BigAl,

But my point is that I would never be flying OVER people. I would be 85 feet away from them.

In windless conditions, even with a catastrophic prop failure, I can’t believe the drone would fly forward 85 feet. Also any RTH failsafe would send the drone up and back (away from the crowd).

I’ll email the FAA via the knowbeforeyoufly site

Also with Aviation often times distances are left up to interpretation. That's good if something goes wrong (allows the examiner to put his/her spin on it). Basically it boils down to "if something happens and a person is hit you were in the wrong regardless of the circumstances. Whatever distance you think is safe go ahead and double it or more.

 

[eoren1]

From the FAA:

“This would be permitted if you have permission from the property owner to stand on the property while flying, have airspace authorization (if outside of Class G airspace), and follow all other Part 107 requirements (no flight over people/maintain visual line of sight/etc.).


It is a good idea to make sure that the school/schools are aware of your intent, and to make sure that your local/state laws permit taking photos of the underage participants.”

 

[BigAl07]

From the FAA:

“This would be permitted if you have permission from the property owner to stand on the property while flying, have airspace authorization (if outside of Class G airspace), and follow all other Part 107 requirements (no flight over people/maintain visual line of sight/etc.).


It is a good idea to make sure that the school/schools are aware of your intent, and to make sure that your local/state laws permit taking photos of the underage participants.”

Well done. That's the only opinion that counts and you now have your guidelines and you should be good to go.

Do come back and share your work afterwards and don't forget to ENJOY the game