Paging Steve Mann

[Jeff48920]

As a good friend of mine once said "You can do anything you want to the American People, as low my as you do it slow enough".

The overall problem is that our government is a system that gets both sides of an issue hating it. One side says too much governance, the other side says too little. Both sides say government is bought and paid for by the other.

One thing y'all have to remember is that laws were developed, not to protect the citizens, but to protect the king. The Magna Carta was the first document that brought the king to be answerable under the law, except that its main protections were for the nobles, again not for the commoners. And so it goes.

 

[750r]

Last time I seen Stevemann was in a FAA thread called someone tinfoil hat then said I'm done
Maybe some black suits came and got him

 

[GoodnNuff]

Well, we're now "required" to register. What would you call it? I am also not a lawyer. Maybe Jeff will chime in.

Steve isn't a lawyer either.

 

[snerd]

Steve isn't a lawyer either.

True, but he knows the FAA inside and out. I think he was as surprised as anyone how quickly registration was accomplished. I was curious as to his take on it.

 

[snerd]

As a good friend of mine once said "You can do anything you want to the American People, as low my as you do it slow enough".

The overall problem is that our government is a system that gets both sides of an issue hating it. One side says too much governance, the other side says too little. Both sides say government is bought and paid for by the other.

One thing y'all have to remember is that laws were developed, not to protect the citizens, but to protect the king. The Magna Carta was the first document that brought the king to be answerable under the law, except that its main protections were for the nobles, again not for the commoners. And so it goes.

But I'm sure you know, that our Constitution was written to LIMIT our government. It's a document that lays out what government "can" do. Other than those "few" exceptions, it's left up to the States and the People. Of course, that intent has been so perverted and watered-down since Lincoln, that the Founders wouldn't even recognize where we've come to today.

 

[joefromga]

But I'm sure you know, that our Constitution was written to LIMIT our government. It's a document that lays out what government "can" do. Other than those "few" exceptions, it's left up to the States and the People. Of course, that intent has been so perverted and watered-down since Lincoln, that the Founders wouldn't even recognize where we've come to today.

Nope! With the "interstate commerce 'clause'" and the "supremacy' clause'" the feds have full power to do anything at anytime including take our money to pay interest on borrowed fake money to a fake bank to punish us for not following these fake unauthorized non-laws they think up.

And a lot of these nerd, beta-males are just begging for it!

 

[Buk]

While I have no concern about registering, alone and of itself. I do have concerns about agreeing to "never" behavior. If the screen shots I have seen are correct, I cannot in all honesty agree to an absolute of "Never" in my behavior when asked by a Federal regulatory department of the government.

I have and will continue to practice behaviors I'm being asked to affirm I will "never" do. I may need to review my automobile driver's license test, but I don't believe I stated I would "never" speed.

As of today at least, I prefer not to lie to the FAA about things I am currently doing, have done with a Phantom for the last three years and wish to continue doing in the foreseeable future.

 

[tcope]

I have tried to register 7 times in last couple of days. The site will not work. Very frustrating. And they don't answer the email I sent for help either. Typical

I checked.... you don't have any drones registered but on the bright side, you now have health care coverage.

 

[msinger]

While I have no concern about registering, alone and of itself. I do have concerns about agreeing to "never" behavior. If the screen shots I have seen are correct, I cannot in all honesty agree to an absolute of "Never" in my behavior when asked by a Federal regulatory department of the government.

Choosing to not agree to those statements does not mean it's okay to do those things. Either way, the FAA can sue you if you do something dangerous with your Phantom.

 

[Jeff48920]

Choosing to not agree to those statements does not mean it's okay to do those things. Either way, the FAA can sue you if you do something dangerous with your Phantom.

Plus, you will be liable for the penalties for unregistered flight.

 

[Buk]

If you take aerial photos or videos, can you look at your "body of work" and say you haven't flown over someone?

In three years of operating Phantoms, I know I have flown over someone. Sometimes that someone is my spotter.

It seems to me the FAA deals in absolutes. If up till today your body of work included flying over someone at sometime, but now you've registered you will not ever fly over a person and you've "signed" a "contract" with the FAA saying you will not. I'm saying I'm hesitant to sign the "contract", when I know fulfilling my side of the agreement may be impossible, difficult at best.

 

[Jeff48920]

If you take aerial photos or videos, can you look at your "body of work" and say you haven't flown over someone?

In three years of operating Phantoms, I know I have flown over someone. Sometimes that someone is my spotter.

It seems to me the FAA deals in absolutes. If up till today your body of work included flying over someone at sometime, but now you've registered you will not ever fly over a person and you've "signed" a "contract" with the FAA saying you will not. I'm saying I'm hesitant to sign the "contract", when I know fulfilling my side of the agreement may be impossible, difficult at best.

Flying over a person is only a problem if you get caught or injure someone. Even then, it is my belief that intent and recklessness will be a larger issue in any penalties assessed. When applying for a drivers license you also agree to abide by all laws regulating the rules of the road.
Even if you refuse to register, you are still governed by the rules making flights over people etc subject to the "careless and reckless" provisions plus you are liable for penalties associated with failing to register.

 

[msinger]

It seems to me the FAA deals in absolutes. If up till today your body of work included flying over someone at sometime, but now you've registered you will not ever fly over a person and you've "signed" a "contract" with the FAA saying you will not. I'm saying I'm hesitant to sign the "contract", when I know fulfilling my side of the agreement may be impossible

You must fly safely whether or not you agree to those terms when completing the UAS registration. If you fly over someone, crash, injure them, and it gets reported to the FAA, they will be knocking at your door whether or not you registered. You're really worrying about a problem that does not exist.

 

[Buk]

Thank you for the discussion. I understand my responsibilities whether I "sign" the registration document or not. However, when I'm picked up for driving over the speed limit in my car I know the fine and approximate court costs. FAA barely knows what the rules for hobby craft are let alone the arbitrary and capricious fines they may levee.

Besides my own trepidation, I'm waiting for the AMA's last minute recommendation before registering.

Now, where is Steve?

 

[Fyod]

The problem with comparing it to cars/drivers is that just about every aspect of a car is overlooked by governmental safety regulations and the maker is held fully responisible in case a fault causes injury or death (in a new car). They are also required to fix any faulty parts on their own expense (aka recalls, also in old cars).
The case is the same with the FAA. They overlook all aspects of aerospace including the manufacturing or import of planes.
This is not the case with UAV. You are "representing" the manufacturer and putting your full faith in the product. If you have a (not uncommon) flyaway or defective battery, crash and injure someone or cause damage, you are fully liable. Proving user or man'f fault will be extremely hard.
This is why the FAA should not overlook the use of something that they themselves do not govern during the man'f process and that does not have black boxes.

 

[Buk]

I understand your point about the FAA overseeing the manufacture of "toys" versus manned aircraft and the risks an operator of a toy accepts.

Getting driver's license is different than UAS registration. Driver's education and licensure is preventative. The primary reason for UAS registration is for post event prosecution. DOT/FAA have created a stop gap (read half-assed) process.

 

[Fyod]

Basically just scare mongering instead of education and a proper roadmap on how to legislate them.

 

[Skywalker]

How does a number and credit card verification make anything safer?

Because now they've "got your number". In theory, you'll behave better.

 

[GoodnNuff]

Because now they've "got your number". In theory, you'll behave better.

That is the theory.
I read on another forum an analogy using litter. If state A fines people who litter $29, and state B fines them $290 and 20 hours of community service, you can bet that state B has far less litter. They didn't stop people from throwing gum wrappers from their car windows, but they put a big dent in the amount of litter tossed on their highways.