New Control software " Hammer" anyone?

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#1
Hi

Has anyone heard of or used Hammer from Hammermissions.com ?

I had an email from them offering a beta testing, and have installed in on an iPad (IO only) but haven't actually flown with it yet Just wondered if anyone else has??

Thanks

Chris
 
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#2
BE CAREFUL.......Dji warns IF you are flying your Drone and experience issues that cause a crash and any kinds of terrible damage....YOU have no warranty....Your damage is YOUR responsibility....I would Not ever fly any thing else But the Go App.....and even with Litchi...and a crash...Your On your own ! ( correct me any time IF i'm wrong ) Hey let them Test their so called "Beta"......why should you be the ginny pig...are they going to repair your drone or replace it IF it crashed with their Beta crap ! let them screw around with it Not You !
 
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#3
Hi

Has anyone heard of or used Hammer from Hammermissions.com ?

I had an email from them offering a beta testing, and have installed in on an iPad (IO only) but haven't actually flown with it yet Just wondered if anyone else has??

Thanks

Chris
No, sorry, I haven't - but I did a quick search on the name (as you have also probably done).

The company was set up about 3 months ago and is registered in London, UK. Info for others, website appears to be here:- https://www.hammermissions.com/ At the bottom of the page you will see that they are seeking more testers. The nature of the business is stated as being 'Business and domestic software development'.

As I said before, I know nothing about them apart from what my quick search found. But everyone has to get started somehow and if the product is good, then the best of luck to them. :)
 
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#4
Hi

Has anyone heard of or used Hammer from Hammermissions.com ?

I had an email from them offering a beta testing, and have installed in on an iPad (IO only) but haven't actually flown with it yet Just wondered if anyone else has??

Thanks

Chris
I have not heard of them and their website really does not give a whole lot of details. Yes DJI can and will refuse to repair your drone if it crashes while being controlled by a third-party app. This is a danger even with a well designed and respected app like Litchi. Having said that, you do need to remember that all of these third-party apps still use the DJI API set, so in effect they are controlling the drone in the way that DJI lets them. It takes some programming errors (the third party's fault) or hardware issues (DJI's product fault), or pilot error (your fault) to cause a crash. As a beta product, who knows what could go wrong, so do you want to take that chance with your expensive drone? Will this company repair it if something happens? What if your drone is still under warranty and it crashes due to hardware failure? DJI will most likely refuse to repair it because you were not using the DJI Go app. Proceed with caution and please let us know if you proceed.
 
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#5
Plus they are not on shore....to make matters worse....you have to deal with a company in the UK. !
Phantom Fandom I'm with You 100%.......Great post above.
 
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#6
I have not heard of them and their website really does not give a whole lot of details. Yes DJI can and will refuse to repair your drone if it crashes while being controlled by a third-party app. This is a danger even with a well designed and respected app like Litchi. Having said that, you do need to remember that all of these third-party apps still use the DJI API set, so in effect they are controlling the drone in the way that DJI lets them. It takes some programming errors (the third party's fault) or hardware issues (DJI's product fault), or pilot error (your fault) to cause a crash. As a beta product, who knows what could go wrong, so do you want to take that chance with your expensive drone? Will this company repair it if something happens? What if your drone is still under warranty and it crashes due to hardware failure? DJI will most likely refuse to repair it because you were not using the DJI Go app. Proceed with caution and please let us know if you proceed.
Constructive and well meaning post however not 100% correct - I’m not aware of DJI ever not repairing solely because pilot was using a non DJI App. They refuse if they are unable to access logs (or like) to establish probable cause of an accident. There have been many reports over the years of DJI repair using Litchi and not repairing using DJIs own app - point being it’s not the user app that’s the criteria.

Of course if things have changed or I’m plain wrong I’d welcome the DJI reference to such condition in their t&cs.

Later edit - my opinion on this is innovation is the name of the game, we experienced pilots should encourage innovation and comment on the risks associated with new software and like, but not recommend to avoid it unconditionally - that’s always end users choice.
 
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#7
I have not heard of them and their website really does not give a whole lot of details. Yes DJI can and will refuse to repair your drone if it crashes while being controlled by a third-party app. This is a danger even with a well designed and respected app like Litchi. Having said that, you do need to remember that all of these third-party apps still use the DJI API set, so in effect they are controlling the drone in the way that DJI lets them. It takes some programming errors (the third party's fault) or hardware issues (DJI's product fault), or pilot error (your fault) to cause a crash. As a beta product, who knows what could go wrong, so do you want to take that chance with your expensive drone? Will this company repair it if something happens? What if your drone is still under warranty and it crashes due to hardware failure? DJI will most likely refuse to repair it because you were not using the DJI Go app. Proceed with caution and please let us know if you proceed.
As has been said- if the cause of the failure is demonstrated to be DJI hardware/software you will have no issues with warranty.

Ask yourself a simple question- why would DJI provide SDK’s to developers if what your suggesting was true? They wouldn’t. The reality is they encourage 3rd party app development. The software cannot issue a command to the aircraft that isn’t provided for in the SSK.

Luckily you are wrong about this.

The advantage with using the GO app is that in circumstances where the AC can’t be recovered to enable retrieval and analysis of the onboard flight log DJI will accept the GO app logs- they won’t do this for third party apps.
 
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#8
As has been said- if the cause of the failure is demonstrated to be DJI hardware/software you will have no issues with warranty.

Ask yourself a simple question- why would DJI provide SDK’s to developers if what your suggesting was true? They wouldn’t. The reality is they encourage 3rd party app development. The software cannot issue a command to the aircraft that isn’t provided for in the SSK.

Luckily you are wrong about this.

The advantage with using the GO app is that in circumstances where the AC can’t be recovered to enable retrieval and analysis of the onboard flight log DJI will accept the GO app logs- they won’t do this for third party apps.
The problem is that we have all seen how terrible DJI support can be. Sure we see people who get great service, but we also see people who have to fight with them and then even when a repair is approved, it takes months. I never said it was in their terms or warranty. I even mentioned the API myself. A third party app cannot issue a command that the API does not allow but a badly programmed third party app could easily crash the drone into the side of a hill on an autonomous mission.
 
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#9
As a retired director of software engineering, I think that it is ok to be a beta tester if you fully understand and are willing to accept the risks.

By definition, beta software has not been fully and exhaustively tested. That is the entire purpose of beta testing. What it also means is that all of the basic functionality is there and working, but some of the funny special conditions have not been tested, or even considered. It is nearly impossible for any complex software system to be fully tested in any bodies lifetime.

These special conditions can be very minor or major an icon changing color or moving around, or not responding properly to a series of commands delivered quickly or in an odd sequence.

Doing a height calculation from Google data would be a good example. There the developer would be at the mercy of both Google Earth’s API and the DJI API, neither one is very well documented.

Flying with beta software does mean accepting these risks, and always flying knowing that the risks are there. Prudence would demand that you fly only in places where if the drone suddenly stops flying and plummets to earth it will destroy only itself. In my view, it is acceptable for the pilot to risk the destruction of his drone, but not ok to risk others property or health.
 
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#10
IF......you fly with the "Beta" stuff....and crash because of it...and hurt some one OR worse .. and are sued whos going stand UP with you in a court of law.
 
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#11
I sent the company an E-Mail, asking them for more information about what they are looking to test and what sort of liability they would cover if something should happen. Let's see what response I get.

>>>>>
Actually just as I posted that message, I got a response from them. They only support iOS devices so I am out for sure since I only use Android phones and tablets. As to liability, their exact response was "In terms of liability, we currently do not support any coverage because of DJIs policy on 3rd party software." I don't understand that at all. DJI's policies should have zero bearing on whether or not you will accept liability and cover any losses should your software cause an accident.

Proceed at your own peril if anyone is going to try it.
 
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#12
There is no support. You assume all the risks if you execute most beta software user agreements. Your signature on the beta contract usually specifies this. No one in their right mind would release beta software without such a phrase. In fact, if you read most software agreements that force you to click "I agree" before they install, they specify that all the risk is on you, and they cannot be held responsible.
 
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#13
My previous experience with DJI and their customer support was absolutely terrible! I now fly with only Litchi knowing that even if I have a warranty issue I'd never again, EVER send my drone to them for repair. If I can't fix it myself, I'll find another shop that can. I got the State Farm insurance to cover most problems anyway. I experienced my problem with them in February of 2017 when my Phantom 4 flipped inverted and powered into the ground. DJI refused to tell me why or how it happened and denied my warranty claim and called it pilot error and hard landing!!! I sent enough proof to them showing that a Phantom cannot be made to invert while operating normally but they still refused to give me an answer! Any answer they started with from the first proved to be a baldfaced lie so I finally gave up and paid the bill and they sent me another drone. However they had, for some reason, removed the retaining springs that lock the propellers on. I had to send a video showing the clips missing before they would mail them to me but it only took five weeks and I had to get a moderator on here to intervene for me! So I fly knowing I have no warranty on my V 2.0 and will assume the risks myself since DJI is not at all reliable, even with so called warranty!

Good luck
Jim
WA5TEF
 
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#14
I experienced my problem with them in February of 2017 when my Phantom 4 flipped inverted and powered into the ground. DJI refused to tell me why or how it happened and denied my warranty claim and called it pilot error and hard landing!!!
Yet another reason for having the data looked at by others here BEFORE doing anything with DJI. If you do not have a heads up on what they will see from the data files, you are at their mercy with no recourse but to accept their analysis. I can pretty much assure you that the many of us who look at data on pretty much a daily basis can make some sort of determination as to pilot error or not. That will give at the very least a bullet in your pocket so to speak. Granted, however that it does not always curve their reasoning of analysis but it most certainly provides the bullet. If people would do their research and training prior to even purchasing a drone, there would be a lot less headaches with DJI. This is just a general comment and not related to your particular incident. Just something I see quite often. People who look for ( and vent ) regarding DJI service without any knowledge of what they ( DJI ) may or may not see.
 
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#16
Is this really true? If so, then I would be rather.... well.... 'surprised'
As would I quite honestly. The mods here are in no affiliation whatsoever with DJI.
 
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#17
I believe in and support non DJI apps. To me they are just another tool to accomplish what I want to do. I use the best tool for the task. In addition to the DJI apps, I use Litchi and AutoPilot for both of my drones. On my P3S, I use Litchi the majority of the time. If it wasn't for Litchi, my P3S would only have very basic control software.

I also use AutoPilot for very specific missions - waypoint missions that I want to have complete control over the camera and Follow Missions where the software tracks the controller or someone else (my son Nordic Skiing) with a GPS phone. It is an innovative and sophisticated autonomous flight control app, but there are certain risks that I am aware of when I use it.

If Hammer is reasonably priced and offers features that are not available on existing software, I may be tempted to give it a try. Yes, it is new and I may be taking more of a risk with beta software, but every time I launch one of my drones, I am taking a risk. Like all things, I try to mitigate the risk by following rules and making sure I have a plan in place should something not go as expected.

Chris
 
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#18
The problem is that we have all seen how terrible DJI support can be. Sure we see people who get great service, but we also see people who have to fight with them and then even when a repair is approved, it takes months. I never said it was in their terms or warranty. I even mentioned the API myself. A third party app cannot issue a command that the API does not allow but a badly programmed third party app could easily crash the drone into the side of a hill on an autonomous mission.
You said DJI can and will refuse warranty if the drone is flown with a third party app. The intent here is for people to get the correct information- which, as you seem to agree- wasn’t what you said earlier.
 
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#19
...I never said it was in their terms or warranty..
No you didn’t, I effectively said ‘show me proof’ of your assertion that they can and will refuse service, because I’m calling it as untrue based on their T&Cs and written real world experiences of folk seeking repairs on this and like forums over the years. Without challenge, folk could believe things are as you described them, when in fact they are not - hopefully you see this, it’s not personal, it’s responsible to fact check.
 
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#20
No you didn’t, I effectively said ‘show me proof’ of your assertion that they can and will refuse service, because I’m calling it as untrue based on their T&Cs and written real world experiences of folk seeking repairs on this and like forums over the years. Without challenge, folk could believe things are as you described them, when in fact they are not - hopefully you see this, it’s not personal, it’s responsible to fact check.
That’s pretty much it Mate- would be disappointing to think that someone might not proceed to use an app that might be good for them based on dodgy info.
 
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