Drone registration ruled unlawful by U.S. Court of Appeals

[ravedog]

Let's strip away the politics of this. The distrust of government. The disfunction of government. "Our trampled rights and freedoms" For a sec. I'll narrow the registration to one narrow use case: say you get Joe hobbiest I'm-a-pro drone pilot doing his worst to ignore every law and common sense practice in his flying and he wrecks. Causing damage or injury. That FCC reg is the only thing that might be evidence in locating the perpetrator. Before you can shoot holes thru my scenario (he can not register, he can not put his FCC id on the raft, etc). It is still one piece that has the POTENTIAL to tie the bad act to the person. And I'm sure everyone EVERYONE On here can agree that the bad actors are the ones alone ruining things in the eyes of the media, public and government.

Take the flip side. If you strip out all the politics and feelings about the government, what harm is there in the registration? None. It's no different than my registering my vehicle. It has zero impact on your ability to fly.

The reality, as another forum member mentioned, drones are becoming ubiquitous. It's a fact. They are more technically challenging to operate than a car and yet anyone can just buy one and launch it into 3D space with zero instruction.

The registration I see as a way to tie ownership to an operator for a worst case scenario. Just because there's a mistrust of government or its effectiveness doesn't mean there should be anarchy.

Edit: I know I came close to conflating the issues of registration vs 107 etc. I was trying to address just registration.

 

[smiller]

Do you honestly think that a $5 fee and registration will make the difference in that person flying or not flying over that building?

This. The person making that flight doesn't believe there will be a problem (or has decided that the probability of an incident is low enough to accept) and isn't going to be stopped because his drone is registered. This happens countless times every day.

But I do share the concern that eventually something a lot more onerous will replace the relatively benign FAA registration system if it is abolished.

 

[42FrankZ]

Take the flip side. If you strip out all the politics and feelings about the government, what harm is there in the registration? None. It's no different than my registering my vehicle. It has zero impact on your ability to fly.

To continue on with that argument, I am not a proponent of vehicle registration. We are required to register them for the fees and control, not for safety.

And even if one were to allow that registration leads to safety, that argument seems shallow since deaths due to drone accident are negligible. Not even sure that has been one yet.

 

[David Rodwell]

Let's all print out the ruling and carry it with our drones. Simply hand a copy to anyone complaining about anything!

Here's a copy for anyone interested:

 

[skyanchor]

I am a current holder of two commercial drone registrations. First one a few months ago cost me $5. Two weeks ago I commercially registered a Phantom 3 Advanced and it cost me $25. ???

 

[sar104]

I am a current holder of two commercial drone registrations. First one a few months ago cost me $5. Two weeks ago I commercially registered a Phantom 3 Advanced and it cost me $25. ???

Sounds like you used one of the commercial sites instead of going straight to the FAA registration site.

 

[srosen]

I think we are better off leaving things the way they are. The FAA will have no organized method of contacting Recreational flyers without the registration. In the long run, if we want flying to be trusted by the public, we need to act in a responsible way with the FAA and not try to hide from them. Besides, it's $5 and takes about 3 minutes of your time. If you can't even do that to show you want to be a responsible recreational flyer, then you shouldn't be flying anyway. Of course,this is not to say registration by itself makes you responsible, it's only part of it.

 

[martin19117]

So, does this mean we get our $5 back? :^)

No i doubt it lol

 

[skyanchor]

Sounds like you used one of the commercial sites instead of going straight to the FAA registration site.

I went to the regular FAA drone registration site. I've registered 5 drones and this is the first time there was a increase in price if you select the commercial box on FAA page.

 

[sar104]

I went to the regular FAA drone registration site. I've registered 5 drones and this is the first time there was a increase in price if you select the commercial box on FAA page.

No - you must have used a different site. I just went to the FAA site and went through the process for a commercial registration as far as the checkout process - the cost is still $5.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Do you honestly think that a $5 fee and registration will make the difference in that person flying or not flying over that building?

In some situations no, but for the most part YES! This court loss by the FAA "will empower stupidity." With registration at least there was a way to "potentially" link a rouge drone operator with a "captured" unit in the event that an illegal act was being perpetrated (providing the drone was registered in the first place, another on-going discussion) My point is you may have some who now feels it will be easier to operate outside of the law because of this.

Case in point: A few weeks ago I was vacationing in Puerto Rico. While visiting El Morro I spotted a guy flying a Mavic from a cemetery next to the old fort and it was obvious he did not want to be seen. Let alone there are tons of signs by the Parks Department prohibiting drones on this federal site, this area is smack in the middle of Dominicci Airport's class D airspace!

 

[42FrankZ]

In some situations no, but for the most part YES! This court loss by the FAA "will empower stupidity."

So no registration make people do stupid things. I think we have no common ground on this then.

 

[borschelrh]

T

I think is a good idea franklin to keep track of drone ownership with the registration.

The problem is that N registration numbers for aircraft must be 12 inches so you can see the registration number at a distance. The sUAS cannot do that so in a way it is counter-intuitive to "identify" a particular sUAS unless you physically track it back to the pilot. A cunning pilot flying autonomously such as you can do with Litchi there is no way the FAA, assuming they had the manpower to do this in the first place which they don't, would be able to determine out where the pilot is. The same would be true flying from a car or boat. It was always a big problem and still is. I suppose though that a crashed drone would be traceable back to the owner/operator.

The FAA did overstep their authority on this one and they now must wait for Congress to overturn the 2012 law forbidding the FAA to regulate hobby drones. With this particular Congress that is not likely to happen in this particular hostile political climate.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

So no registration make people do stupid things. I think we have no common ground on this then.

I added to my post, see above.

I've been working in aviation for almost 40 years.Even with the tons of regulations I have to deal with on a daily basis (and some are very dumb) I thank god that sometimes some folks with impaired decision making abilities actually follow them, but you will always have those who will step outside the line.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

T

The problem is that N registration numbers for aircraft must be 12 inches so you can see the registration number at a distance. The sUAS cannot do that so in a way it is counter-intuitive to "identify" a particular sUAS unless you physically track it back to the pilot. A cunning pilot flying autonomously such as you can do with Litchi there is no way the FAA, assuming they had the manpower to do this in the first place which they don't, would be able to determine out where the pilot is. The same would be true flying from a car or boat. It was always a big problem and still is. I suppose though that a crashed drone would be traceable back to the owner/operator.

The FAA did overstep their authority on this one and they now must wait for Congress to overturn the 2012 law forbidding the FAA to regulate hobby drones. With this particular Congress that is not likely to happen in this particular hostile political climate.

Agree on many points - the only way the FAA will come up with the "manpower" if it could be shown that there are continual violations and public safety is in jeopardy, or if there is one major incident that captures huge media attention.

 

[IIIDaemon]

Interesting that the DJI lawyer was in favor of the hobbyist registration as mentioned here:

Hobbyists' Path to Drone Flying Gets Easier as Court Rebuffs FAA

"The world’s largest drone manufacturer, China-based SZ DJI Technology Co., said that the FAA’s registration system had made sense."

“The FAA’s innovative approach to drone registration was very reasonable, and registration provides for accountability and education to drone pilots,” Brendan Schulman, DJI’s vice president of policy and legal affairs, said in an email. “I expect the legal issue that impedes this program will be addressed by cooperative work between the industry and policy makers.”

Almost comical that a non-lawyer beat a real lawyer in court too.

.
...Interesting?!? whats interesting about 1 corporation siding with another corporation/gov't..?
.
IIIDaemon
www.GasRecovery.net

 

[GMack]

.
...Interesting?!? whats interesting about 1 corporation siding with another corporation/gov't..?
.
IIIDaemon
www.GasRecovery.net

You misinterpreted my post. Judge ruled "No hobbyist registration needed," and the DJI lawyer (still) wants it. Wasn't met to be read as FAA or the Feds lawyer and DJI lawyer both agreeing on registration, but more the judge who differs with those twos opinion.

 

[tcope]

I think we are better off leaving things the way they are. The FAA will have no organized method of contacting Recreational flyers without the registration. In the long run, if we want flying to be trusted by the public, we need to act in a responsible way with the FAA and not try to hide from them. Besides, it's $5 and takes about 3 minutes of your time. If you can't even do that to show you want to be a responsible recreational flyer, then you shouldn't be flying anyway. Of course,this is not to say registration by itself makes you responsible, it's only part of it.

Yes, all of the law abiding people will register their drones and pay $5. What about all the people who simply don't register their drones... which is legal now? That is, the list never did anything and it never will.

Edit: As I've always said, the registration was a way for the FAA to push safety information to those that registered and to illegally create new regulations.

Truth is, RC aircraft have been around for a _long_ time. They have not been an issue and either are drones. It's just that it sells news to put drones in front of the public.

 

[sar104]

Yes, all of the law abiding people will register their drones and pay $5. What about all the people who simply don't register their drones... which is legal now? That is, the list never did anything and it never will.

I always thought that the intent of requiring registration was to be able to track the owners after crashes or accidents, with the side benefit (to the FAA) of at least giving the impression of a somewhat regulated activity, and to discourage bad piloting. That's never going to prevent all bad outcomes, but anything that at least helps to reduce those outcomes is at least potentially worthwhile depending, of course, on cost/benefit.

 

[tcope]

I always thought that the intent of requiring registration was to be able to track the owners after crashes or accidents, with the side benefit (to the FAA) of at least giving the impression of a somewhat regulated activity, and to discourage bad piloting. That's never going to prevent all bad outcomes, but anything that at least helps to reduce those outcomes is at least potentially worthwhile depending, of course, on cost/benefit.

That is what the FAA _told_ people. I agree that it gave a way for the FAA to push safety information. However, they chose to do it illegally with a hit from a sledge hammer. There are many other ways to accomplish the same thing and do it legally.