Drone Police - they're getting deployed

[jlummel]

[...]
While I don't look forward to the time when the equivalent of license plates will be required on all hobby drones, there is no way to ignore the alternative. Pretty soon the term "crowded skies" will have a brand-new meaning.

We are pretty much at there at the 'license plate' stage already with the requirement to affix our FAA registration number to any model aircraft we operate!

As for crowded skies, almost EVERYWHERE I fly that's away from the club's local airfield, people are coming up and asking about my sUAV and commenting on it being the first time they've seen one in person and not on TV. Or they've seen their friend's kids play with a micro-quad , but this is the first "real drone" they've ever seen.

We are a LONG ways from "crowded skies"!!

 

[jm/lh]

That may be true...HOWEVER...if you (like myself) live in a small town, it could be in your best interest to do whatever the officer asks you to do as you still have to live there and you want to be known as a good guy and avoid future hassles. What a wonderful opportunity to introduce myself or get his email address and send him a snapshot of him standing by his cruiser. I will even go so far as to ask the officer if he would like to take my Phantom for a spin. IF he does that, he's going to think you're one of the good guys.

Hi Jaime Ray Vaughn - That is one of the most sensible posts I've read on this or any other forum lately. A little good will can go a long way. Offering to let him take your Phantom for a spin is golden!

 

[snerd]

Wow! It's like herding cats! Keeping up with all of the crazy advice being put out there. OP, just remember one thing............... most of the advice you are getting here is worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[QuadBart]

This is an interesting point. Of my friends and acquaintances including co-workers, I know of only 2 other people who have Quads and both are basically toys in the sub $50 category. So, I think we are still aways from "crowded skys", well not to mention with all the negative media attention, I think people are more hesitant to get involved in the "hobby".

We are pretty much at there at the 'license plate' stage already with the requirement to affix our FAA registration number to any model aircraft we operate!

As for crowded skies, almost EVERYWHERE I fly that's away from the club's local airfield, people are coming up and asking about my sUAV and commenting on it being the first time they've seen one in person and not on TV. Or they've seen their friend's kids play with a micro-quad , but this is the first "real drone" they've ever seen.

We are a LONG ways from "crowded skies"!!

 

[AgentOrange2015]

Remember they took down Al Capone on a technicality! The way to avoid being bit on the butt by a technicality is to be aware of it before those who might use it against you are, and to take action to eliminate it from their arsenal of tricks.


I deleted most of your post so that I could write my response and people would not have to scroll down forever to read what I wanted to say.

I have read posts on many different forums and would like to compliment you on a well written response. It is really nice to be able to read an intelligent post for a change. Keep it up.

 

[DeadGrunt]

Newbie here, and everyone was a newbie once. However, I did my due diligence, read all the smart peoples comments, watched the reputable videos and got a P3A. Made a checklist and tried to form good habits before my first flight. Updated all the firmware and batteries before it ever saw the daylight. With that being said, I registered with the FAA, and went today to the old baseball diamonds. We still have snow a few inches thick, and winds were 12-19mph in gusts. But a snowstorm is coming and it may be April before I can try to fly again.

So, I went to the diamond, and I was the only one around and went by my checklist, and had no issues. The first liftoff was upon me, and lifted off. All of your guidance worked perfectly. I let it hover for a minute and it was holding perfectly. I flew for about 7 minutes just getting used to the controls. Yaw and stuff, and decided to land, put in a new battery, then go above the light poles.

I flew for about 15 minutes over the diamonds, and open cornfields, and brought it home. I hovered, and landed gently. And then I put it on the picnic table and was removing the props and there they were; two PD officers in their cars watching me. Never went above 150 feet, never lost sight, no one was around, and slam, slam, both their doors shut, and here they came.

I greeted them, and they inquired out of curiosity, and I presented the elements of the aircraft. The other officer then said, "Is this registered?" I pulled open the battery compartment, showed him the FAA number, and also opened a binder I created, and was under the case. I had the manual, firmware steps, pre-flight checklist, and even my email with the FAA Registration confirmation in the binder. They asked what I was videotaping, and showed them the video playback, and asked them if there was anything else they wanted to know. Both looked at each other, said, "No, you're good to go, have a nice day," and departed.

I can honestly say that having all the documentation in a binder, having a good attitude, and being cooperative without arrogance, made the difference. With that being said, it was all of you that prepared me for a successful first flight. I did try different video settings, and was not thrilled with the quality. Still working on the Histogram, and post production methods, but thanks again all. The best thing is, there will never be a, "Crashed on first flight video from me!!!!"

 

[JKDSensei]

I greeted them, and they inquired out of curiosity, and I presented the elements of the aircraft. The other officer then said, "Is this registered?"

When he asked you if it was registered, did he have one hand on his Glock and the other on his handcuffs?

Kidding aside..... folks have until Feb 19 to register anyway. You weren't "required" to have it registered at that time.

 

[jlummel]

When he asked you if it was registered, did he have one hand on his Glock and the other on his handcuffs?

Kidding aside..... folks have until Feb 19 to register anyway. You weren't "required" to have it registered at that time.

That's only true if he bought it before Dec 21, 2015. For anything bought on that date or after, you need a valid FAA registration number on before it's first flight.

BTW- I printed the PDF version of my FAA registration that the FAA makes available and then used a credit card sized self-laminating pouch to protect it since modern laser printouts seem to rub off easier than they used to say 10 or 20 years ago. I keep one in my wallet and put another in my Taranis case as most of my model aircraft I use the Taranis with.I also screen grabbed the card from the PDF and uploaded it to my phone as an electronic copy is considered acceptable.

But whether with a binder or by doing the laminated card thing, it's a good idea to keep a copy of it with the aircraft if you can.

Don't leave home without it!

 

[DeadGrunt]

When he asked you if it was registered, did he have one hand on his Glock and the other on his handcuffs?

Kidding aside..... folks have until Feb 19 to register anyway. You weren't "required" to have it registered at that time.

I knew it wasn't due yet, but figured I might as well just put it in the binder and leave it there. Its good for three years, so that's where it will stay. He was too busy warming his hands in his pockets to hold a Glock,

 

[RCFantom]

Was out testing some settings on my P3P in the Phoenix area and the sheriff stopped by showing me this. We talked for a bit but he said law enforcement is getting spun up to deal with the increased drone activity. So I guess he was practicing on me. Had the registration, pilots license ( didn't need to but showed him anyway) and most of the voodoo.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforcement/media/LEO_guidance_card.pdf

Law Enforcement role will be to identify the operator, verify registration, and to report. It's a matter of Police enforcing basically a civil regulations. Something will eventually occur, but as soon as it hits the upper courts, I don't think it'll hold up.

 

[vgt]

If you were not doing anything wrong, he has no lawful reason to ask for your I.D. or license. Let him haul you in, slap you down, or write you a citation....he'd lose in court and you'd own his Police Department. Your flight record would blow him and all his lawyers right out of court. As soon as you presented your flight record, they'd be begging for an out of court settlement and wouldn't be able to say that they were sorry enough times. Drone pilots, stand up for your rights and remember, you have video and digital proof of what you were doing when approached by Law Enforcement.

Yeah... that's not how things work.

 

[N017RW]

Nothing but the best Legal advice here on PP.

 

[Deputy Dog]

Yeah... that's not how things work.

Just before you go to trial, it'll work that way. They'll try and get you plea out but as soon as they get a chance to see your video and digital evidence, they will be the ones pleading. If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got them. If you did do something wrong, just pay the fine...LOL

 

[Wang J Coon]

The USCG and state and local lake and waterway patrols check, without PC, boat registration and safety all the time. Rules have been set, follow those rules. If you don't like the rules elect an official who will change them.

 

[Fatcat1]

The LEO card has been online for a few weeks, at least. Our local law enforcement in Illinois have been going to seminars specifically related to drone technology, mostly because Illinois has passed laws regulating how law enforcement are allowed (and not allowed) to use drones.

When I see the mouthy kids on this forum saying they will do this or that regardless of the law, I just sit back and let them squawk. Drone use is getting serious consideration in the legal world and soon it will be on par (responsibility wise) with driving a car.

Right now, law enforcement can ask you for drone ID, but they cannot make arrests based on drone use as they do not have the authority. What they have to do is report the drone activity to the FAA, who for now are fully responsible for enforcement of the NAS.

It won't be long before the FAA starts acting on reckless drone use, and I am sure they will do all they can to get publicity for it. I'm guessing we will start seeing the stories by spring.

Well said you are so right now it's just me and one of the local police officers that have a drone. It's a small town people are a little behind technology but I guess when the mainstream media gets a hold of things though put a spin on it make it into something it's not my suggestion to all my fellow drone brothers and sisters because be cool be smart be safe

 

[Noble 1]

They make FAA reg seem so innocent...

Funny thing is there are 4 pages to this FAA Reg... 3/4 are to ensure payment.

This is exactly like license plates. LEO's are going to be the arm of the FAA regulation. Its for a good cause theres a lot of bad use out there but REG wont stop someone from driving without a license or doing bad things. FAA Reg is paving the way- eventually people without reg will stick out like a sore thumb and drones will come premade with reg ID's just like cars with lic plates. The dumb criminals will certainly get caught and this ID will be a solid piece of evidence to tie the perp to the drone. Smart ones will shave the serial off and not be registered and even that too will be used as evidence to paint a picture of premeditation and conspiracy to commit unauthorized surveillance, trespassing, invasion of privacy, terrorism and treason or whatever.

The LEO's are encouraged to stop as many drone pilots as possible to get training. And LEO's are REQUIRED to make good on public safety and 911 calls for suspicious activity. I'm sure they get kudos every time they go out and come back and say they survived a drone encounter to their buddies on their lunch break.

Summary- I always turn off my car, have my cards ready, window down and radio off when i get pulled over. Hands on steering wheel and I smile and am polite and greet PD with respect and kindness. Nothing ticks them off more than attitude. I have no doubt in my mind if someone makes a 911 call about invasion of privacy you'll get your drone confiscated for evidence and the FAA# is just the kind of evidence to close a case. Do no pass go do not collect 200 dollars.

Lets help encourage these LEO's brand us as the good guys. It takes time. With the LEO's training and now making routine stops to check for reg it will help in this way: LEO's are regular guys like us, but they have a passion to serve and protect and they are LOOKING for suspicious activity. IF all us hobby guys look the same like silly old men with fanny packs and ground stations at the park with no reason to hide anything this pattern will help so much...

THEN when the LEO encounters a real suspicious cat, like in an alley, wearing a mask and trying to evade, the LEO will know immediately he's not dealing with a hobby-ist.

 

[jlummel]

Law Enforcement role will be to identify the operator, verify registration, and to report. It's a matter of Police enforcing basically a civil regulations. Something will eventually occur, but as soon as it hits the upper courts, I don't think it'll hold up.

My guess is that one of the goals of the FAA is to impede the growth of this activity and a high level of police presence is a surefire way to stifle almost any kind of activity!

And with it becoming more obvious, as time moves on, that the "Fergason Effect" is in full play, it'll be safer for police to deal with drone owners than with real crime, and less of a chance for officers to become the next victim of the dubious politics associated with the BLM movement making them a national icon of hatred, just for just doing their jobs.

I don't think that being up held by the high courts figures into this in the long run...

But as it's a safer activity for the police and given that the FAA's propaganda campaign against drone owners has politicized this issue nationally, I would imagine that more and more police chiefs will seize on this as a way to look busy while ignoring the real problems in their communities.

But the police officers on the street will be as much victims of this as us drone owners, so don't take it out on them! As a community, we simply don't need the backlash.

 

[Droneted]

In my humble opinion, they write these kind of laws as a profit making venture. Fines are just another tax. They will write tickets on a quota system. Most will just pay the fine because they don't want the hassle. Politicians are polite crooks

 

[artichoke]

Very interesting. Read the card carefully. Nothing about 400' ceiling, but you are required (according to the card) to follow the flying rules of a modeler's association, such as AMA. It does not say you have to be a member of AMA, just follow their rules (or find another organization and follow their rules.) Also no line of sight requirement for model aircraft, only for commercial ones.

Here are the AMA rules. https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.PDF Read them carefully.

Still there's no 400' ceiling except close to an airport.
Also, unless I missed, it, there is no line of sight requirement.

So if I read things correctly, we do not have a general 400' ceiling requirement nor a line of sight requirement. We do have to have our aircraft registered and marked however. And I have done that. And I am a generally safe and prudent guy.

So I don't think I would have anything to hide from a cop.

 

[artichoke]

That's only true if he bought it before Dec 21, 2015. For anything bought on that date or after, you need a valid FAA registration number on before it's first flight.

BTW- I printed the PDF version of my FAA registration that the FAA makes available and then used a credit card sized self-laminating pouch to protect it since modern laser printouts seem to rub off easier than they used to say 10 or 20 years ago. I keep one in my wallet and put another in my Taranis case as most of my model aircraft I use the Taranis with.I also screen grabbed the card from the PDF and uploaded it to my phone as an electronic copy is considered acceptable.

But whether with a binder or by doing the laminated card thing, it's a good idea to keep a copy of it with the aircraft if you can.

Don't leave home without it!

I thought all that was required was to have the aircraft marked, and carry personal ID (is that even required?). Then they can check the FAA records, and my ID, and see that I am the registered drone operator with that registration number. (Even though the number is on the drone, I am the one with the number. We can fly several drones under the same number.)

But just for my own purposes I should print and laminate some checklists. What's a good place to get them?