Actually, under part 107, even if there is a tower, you are good to fly unless it is controlled airspace (Class B, C, D, E, etc.).
Dealing with local heliports
- Thread starter mchadwickclark
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That's not correct. Whether or not an airport has a tower has nothing to do with whether or not you must contact them prior to your flight. You are required to contact the airport - even one without a tower. Read the rules (i.e. laws) regarding your flight (i.e. Part 101 or Part 107). ...
Rules on heliports, OTOH, are a bit murky... it hasn't really been established what we must do regarding contacting them - but we know we must NOT endanger NAS
I call the Hospital for the CEO. When I get his secretary or her voicemail, I let them know I'll be flying there sometime that day. I figure flying directly from the helipad gives me the best chance on not running into a medical helicopter.
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I look on AirMap to find the heliports, call them,tell them I am giving them notice of my flight, give the timeframe, my name, approximately where or what distance I will be flying from them, my tail number and cell number and let them know to call me if they will be conducting any air operation so I can land.
If the duration of my operation is more than an hour or two I call to notify that I have concluded my air ops so they don't call me after that.
Otherwise if it's only for an hour or two flight time I don't call at the end unless they are a law enforcement agency in which case I ask up front if they want a call when I'm done and call at the end if they do because a lot of them appreciate knowing when you are out of the air.
Then I note the name and number in my log book and cell phone for future use.
If the duration of my operation is more than an hour or two I call to notify that I have concluded my air ops so they don't call me after that.
Otherwise if it's only for an hour or two flight time I don't call at the end unless they are a law enforcement agency in which case I ask up front if they want a call when I'm done and call at the end if they do because a lot of them appreciate knowing when you are out of the air.
Then I note the name and number in my log book and cell phone for future use.
I'd be very careful about this approach. According to FAR 101, which is the reg that applies here -
(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.
By not notifying the airport, you aren't following 101 and are therefore subject to FAR 107. An advisory circular isn't enforceable, the regulation is.
The legal definition of airport is "Airport means an area of land or water that is used or intended to be used for the landing and takeoff of aircraft, and includes its buildings and facilities, if any." (FAR 1.1) and therefore a helipad would qualify.
That said, I completely agree with you. The FAA has not coordinated these rules well with the smaller facilities (and some of the larger ones). It seems like they published them and didn't let these guys know what they were supposed to do. It's goofy. I think your approach is more practical, but sadly, probably not legal.
A lot of what is constituted to be an airport under FAA regs often do not apply to heliports:
Heliports – Part 139 Airport Certification
That said, if you make the effort to call, that's all that you can do, you have stayed true to the intent of the regulation.
Now a suggestion...when you call a facility, uncontrolled airport in this example, can be applied to heliports as well, besides notifying the person on the other end, see if they have a unicom operator and leave it with them. Th unicom is the radio freq in use at an uncontrolled airport, and typically if someone is manning it, that may not be the person you are talking to when you call, hence the "what?" response. At the very least, a busy UC airport with a manned unicom operator (not whomever answers a call per se) can pass along the message when (and if) air traffic calls for info before landing, taking off, etc.
The other thing you can ask is if they have route agreements for departure and approaches to said heliport (in addition to any instrument approaches larger ones may have certified) knowing this can allow you to choose your home point without having your quad get in the way of those routes, and lessens the danger of a mishap should the heli be coming in or departing.
Note: unicom is not the same as a tower. (Controlled airport).
Now, from the cockpit side of view, as far as heli ops, I would be appreciative of the advisory, and if you go with my suggestion of finding and avoiding departure/approach paths, I'd be even less nervous if your ops were going on when one had to depart/approach.
Yes the rules have large gray areas, but remember, in the end it is your responsibility to avoid air traffic as you are on the ground stationary and looking up.
Heliports – Part 139 Airport Certification
That said, if you make the effort to call, that's all that you can do, you have stayed true to the intent of the regulation.
Now a suggestion...when you call a facility, uncontrolled airport in this example, can be applied to heliports as well, besides notifying the person on the other end, see if they have a unicom operator and leave it with them. Th unicom is the radio freq in use at an uncontrolled airport, and typically if someone is manning it, that may not be the person you are talking to when you call, hence the "what?" response. At the very least, a busy UC airport with a manned unicom operator (not whomever answers a call per se) can pass along the message when (and if) air traffic calls for info before landing, taking off, etc.
The other thing you can ask is if they have route agreements for departure and approaches to said heliport (in addition to any instrument approaches larger ones may have certified) knowing this can allow you to choose your home point without having your quad get in the way of those routes, and lessens the danger of a mishap should the heli be coming in or departing.
Note: unicom is not the same as a tower. (Controlled airport).
Now, from the cockpit side of view, as far as heli ops, I would be appreciative of the advisory, and if you go with my suggestion of finding and avoiding departure/approach paths, I'd be even less nervous if your ops were going on when one had to depart/approach.
Yes the rules have large gray areas, but remember, in the end it is your responsibility to avoid air traffic as you are on the ground stationary and looking up.
I've pointed this out before in at least a couple other threads but I'll point it out again...
In several areas of PL 112-95, there are areas titled "Definitions," and the document never bothered to give a definition for heliport.
If you take a look at Sec 336 of that document (which is what Part 101 stems from), the word "airport" is included and the word "heliport" is excluded.
If you take a look at Sec 334 however, the word "airport" is included and the word "heliport" is included.
Why? Why would they deliberately exclude "heliport" from Sec 336?
Furthermore, in Sec 334, why would the add the word "heliport" to a sentence that includes "airport" if a heliport is an airport?
There is a vagueness here, and this vagueness could have been addressed in AC 91-57A and it could have been addressed in Part 101, but both opportunities were lost as it was left as it is: vague.
And again, as I pointed out above, airmap.io, whose mission is to make sense of and map air restrictions, seems to support this vagueness regarding heliports.
...
Don't worry about me - I'm always careful.
In several areas of PL 112-95, there are areas titled "Definitions," and the document never bothered to give a definition for heliport.
If you take a look at Sec 336 of that document (which is what Part 101 stems from), the word "airport" is included and the word "heliport" is excluded.
If you take a look at Sec 334 however, the word "airport" is included and the word "heliport" is included.
Why? Why would they deliberately exclude "heliport" from Sec 336?
Furthermore, in Sec 334, why would the add the word "heliport" to a sentence that includes "airport" if a heliport is an airport?
There is a vagueness here, and this vagueness could have been addressed in AC 91-57A and it could have been addressed in Part 101, but both opportunities were lost as it was left as it is: vague.
And again, as I pointed out above, airmap.io, whose mission is to make sense of and map air restrictions, seems to support this vagueness regarding heliports.
...
Don't worry about me - I'm always careful.
AFAIK, it's simple. The FAA considers that Heliports are a type of airport. Just like Seaports are also another type.
It's even simpler if a heliport has an FAA airport ID. But do all heliports have one? That's a good question. How would we know if there is one but without an ID? And not all of them have a big "H" on the ground.
Notification: For instance, near Brookeville MD (where Mark The Droner hails from) there is the MEDSTAR MONTGOMERY MEDICAL CENTER heliport which has the FAA ID of 18MD Fly as hobby within 5SM and you should notify them. Anyone disagree?
Unfortunately AirMap.io (and it's app) only tells of it (I'm not fond of their map displays of heliports), and does give the PH# but does not show the ID nor where it is on the map so it's hard to figure out where the 5SM boundary is. The B4UFLY app does display where it's at, the radius of 5 miles around it, the FAA ID but not a PH# to call. Gotta use 'em both.
Someone mentioned heliports not having a control tower, alluding that they would then be in Class G airspace. Not so. Many are in Class B & C airspace. Nothing wrong with that.
For example, near me in KROC Class C airspace, close to the flight path for RNY 28 and close to the downwind of RNY 25 is a hospital heliport. It's about a mile outside the airport fence, well within the 5NM of the inner Class C surface shell. When copters are taking off & landing there they communicate with KROC for clearance and navigation. Very active, I hear them all the time.
Here's a gray area heliport for you. There's a private heliport near me, NY21. It's in the backyard of a guy that developed the area. But he can't use it anymore as the town outlawed aircraft landing. Do I need to call him when I fly (hobby) within 5 miles of a known inactive, never to be used again, heliport? Here's the story about it: Attempt to Land Helicopter Lands Man in Legal Doghouse Ya can't make this stuff up folks.
It's even simpler if a heliport has an FAA airport ID. But do all heliports have one? That's a good question. How would we know if there is one but without an ID? And not all of them have a big "H" on the ground.
Notification: For instance, near Brookeville MD (where Mark The Droner hails from) there is the MEDSTAR MONTGOMERY MEDICAL CENTER heliport which has the FAA ID of 18MD Fly as hobby within 5SM and you should notify them. Anyone disagree?
Unfortunately AirMap.io (and it's app) only tells of it (I'm not fond of their map displays of heliports), and does give the PH# but does not show the ID nor where it is on the map so it's hard to figure out where the 5SM boundary is. The B4UFLY app does display where it's at, the radius of 5 miles around it, the FAA ID but not a PH# to call. Gotta use 'em both.
Someone mentioned heliports not having a control tower, alluding that they would then be in Class G airspace. Not so. Many are in Class B & C airspace. Nothing wrong with that.
For example, near me in KROC Class C airspace, close to the flight path for RNY 28 and close to the downwind of RNY 25 is a hospital heliport. It's about a mile outside the airport fence, well within the 5NM of the inner Class C surface shell. When copters are taking off & landing there they communicate with KROC for clearance and navigation. Very active, I hear them all the time.
Here's a gray area heliport for you. There's a private heliport near me, NY21. It's in the backyard of a guy that developed the area. But he can't use it anymore as the town outlawed aircraft landing. Do I need to call him when I fly (hobby) within 5 miles of a known inactive, never to be used again, heliport? Here's the story about it: Attempt to Land Helicopter Lands Man in Legal Doghouse Ya can't make this stuff up folks.
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