Class E Airspace

[YogiFlyer]

Yogi, i'm a foreflight lover! although as a cfi the georeferencing gets in the way and i make them put their ipad away....

Haha...yes. Not so good for students needing to learn stick and rudder first, or pilotage and dead reckoning. But is fantastic for UAV use.

 

[smddmd]

agreed,,,but would REALLY b nice if my drone could be georeferenced on my Ipad, what an idea, guess if UAV's go ADS/B we may just see that..I know now that my plane gets followed from take off to landing,,,N8632Y, I'm amazed, even if i don't file, they track you, DRONES beware!

 

[y2khardtop]

I just received my Pilot Pilot cert so airspace is fresh on my mind...I also completed the 107 online course and my states online UAS exam. The only practical time I could see flying into Class e airspace is due to the rule about flying within 400' of structures. I have some property that I own, with a water tower next to it, so I've given this some thought. If you had a 400' tower, and you were within 400' of it, you could legal fly 800' AGL in rural areas. However, this would push you into Echo airspace in some instances around untowered airports. So you'd be limited to fly under 700' to stay clear of the Echo without permission as I understand it

 

[y2khardtop]

smddmd: I was just about to ask a question you may have answered. A year or so ago I KNOW the requirement was to contact ATC for clearance near controlled airspace, but now it looks like you have to get a waiver . As a PP I'd prefer to just call ATC, but has anyone confirmed that the ONLY way to get clearance into controlled airspace is via a waiver. This is for 107 commercial use only of course, not fun

I have a farm that is HALF inside of a Delta.....I can fly for fun, but plan on shooting some photos/video for real estate purposes. I just love waiting on the FAA to process pretty much anything!

Sorry, I'm late to this thread, but just found it. As a Pt 61 cfi/i/mei i know airspace fairly well. Then I'm flying this drone for business and just call the tower, ATC, submit a flight plan, call them and fly my drone. Till one day, a towered airport is confused on procedure and has me contact a FAA UAS rep for the east coast. She explains that (and there is an order that explains it very well, supporting her) ATC cannot issue authorization to fly in controlled airspace, period. And the pilot must use the FAA UAS website to file for airspace authorization. Airmaps and any other UAV map is worthless to tell you the airspace, you must consult the most current FAA sectional or terminal VFR chart. And airspace, especially these little Cl E surface extensions do change.

 

[BigAl07]

N42742, funny thing is that i can file an IFR flight plan, go get my plane ready and fly within half hour. A drone? I'm still waiting for simple airspace authorizations that i filed over 3 months ago, crazy.....i had to fly a plane in a busy airspace, near people, etc, and move for some heavy's departing close by, just cause i couldn't get a drone approval for up to 100 agl.....what plane would be there? crazy

It would be nice (and make sense) if we had your Part61 we could still call the tower and get approval but that's no longer an option for us.

Luckily, as Yogi pointed out, there is a better system in the works and if all goes well 2018 will find it much easier to fly a Civil UAS in controlled airspace.

 

[BigAl07]

smddmd: I was just about to ask a question you may have answered. A year or so ago I KNOW the requirement was to contact ATC for clearance near controlled airspace, but now it looks like you have to get a waiver . As a PP I'd prefer to just call ATC, but has anyone confirmed that the ONLY way to get clearance into controlled airspace is via a waiver. This is for 107 commercial use only of course, not fun

I have a farm that is HALF inside of a Delta.....I can fly for fun, but plan on shooting some photos/video for real estate purposes. I just love waiting on the FAA to process pretty much anything!

Unfortunately there was a MEMO that went out last year to all ATC stating that all UAS Airspace requests are to go through the web portal. Some areas ignored it for a long time (which was VERY nice) but it's been a while since I've heard from a reliable source that any ATC was still giving verbal authorizations over the phone.

 

[smddmd]

To all, a while back I spoke w/ the FAA concerning ATC clearance. Some, military and civilian ATC are behind the curve, or were. They are being educated. All UAV controlled airpspace clearance must go thru the FAA websites' portal. Even if the FAR's mislead, it is cleared up in another doc the FAA puts out, called and order, or specifically FAA Order JO 7200.23........i'm tryin to upload the pdf now,,,,hope this helps...today i'm calling another fed about long ago filed COA's......I had photo job offer to fly just across a river from KPHL, I wont' get a UAV clearance quick enough, but interesting, I can coordinate with their tower and go fly it today in a small GA aircraft!!!!!! I called the tower and got confirmation already, but I'm tryin to get a drone clearance first, much safer and better

 

[seanhagerty]

Is this correct?

On the sectional charts, I have the shaded magenta area showing class E Airspace. Class E airspace does not start until 700'AGL, unless you are inside the broken line on the map, then it starts at the surface. If I am inside the shaded area, but outside the broken line, I do not need a waiver.

Is this correct?

 

[N42742]

Yes, that is correct. You only need an Airspace Authorization for the Class E that begins at the surface.

 

[seanhagerty]

Yes, that is correct. You only need an Airspace Authorization for the Class E that begins at the surface.

Thank you. Confusing at times, especially when I get info from old threads with outdated data.

 

[Just Mark]

Is this correct?

On the sectional charts, I have the shaded magenta area showing class E Airspace. Class E airspace does not start until 700'AGL, unless you are inside the broken line on the map, then it starts at the surface. If I am inside the shaded area, but outside the broken line, I do not need a waiver.

Is this correct?

SNARKINESS ALERT: You wouldn't need a waiver anyway even if you WERE flying in class e airspace.

However, you would need AUTHORIZATION. A waiver is for OTHER rules than airspace, such as flying over people, or flying at night, or something along those lines.

But entering controlled airspace requires authorization, which, from what I have read, is handled by a different department / different process than requests for a waiver.


END SNARKINESS.

And, yes, you are correct. If the area you are in has a shaded magenta border on the sectional chart, it is Class G airspace from the surface up to just below 700' AGL. And in those situations, you do not need authorization first.

 

[BigAl07]

SNARKINESS ALERT: You wouldn't need a waiver anyway even if you WERE flying in class e airspace.

However, you would need AUTHORIZATION. A waiver is for OTHER rules than airspace, such as flying over people, or flying at night, or something along those lines.

But entering controlled airspace requires authorization, which, from what I have read, is handled by a different department / different process than requests for a waiver.


END SNARKINESS.

And, yes, you are correct. If the area you are in has a shaded magenta border on the sectional chart, it is Class G airspace from the surface up to just below 700' AGL. And in those situations, you do not need authorization first.

Really?

According to FAA.gov:

• 
  
  * An airspace authorization is short term (up to 6 months) and grants access to a more limited operating area.
  
  * An airspace waiver is longer term (6 months to 2 years) and grants access to a bigger operating area.
  
  • You must provide additional information to justify the safety of your operation.
  • FAA will take longer to process your request because we need more time to perform a safety analysis.
    if you want to fly in controlled airspace (Class B, C, D, or surface area E), you will need to apply for an airspace authorization or airspace waiver:
• Airspace waivers are strictly concerned with flying in controlled airspace, and should not be confused with Part 107 waivers.

Regarding airspace waivers, it’s important to note that FAA.gov states: “Airspace waivers require significant mitigations and may require a longer period of time for processing. See instructions for further guidance.”

 

[Just Mark]

Really?

According to FAA.gov:

• 
  
  * An airspace authorization is short term (up to 6 months) and grants access to a more limited operating area.
  
  * An airspace waiver is longer term (6 months to 2 years) and grants access to a bigger operating area.
  • You must provide additional information to justify the safety of your operation.
  • FAA will take longer to process your request because we need more time to perform a safety analysis.
    if you want to fly in controlled airspace (Class B, C, D, or surface area E), you will need to apply for an airspace authorization or airspace waiver:
• Airspace waivers are strictly concerned with flying in controlled airspace, and should not be confused with Part 107 waivers.

Regarding airspace waivers, it’s important to note that FAA.gov states: “Airspace waivers require significant mitigations and may require a longer period of time for processing. See instructions for further guidance.”

Thanks for the clarification!!!

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks for the clarification!!!

I admit it was confusing when they first started using Airspace Waiver . . . but once you dig in it does make sense... sort of LOL!

 

[YogiFlyer]

I admit it was confusing when they first started using Airspace Waiver . . . but once you dig in it does make sense... sort of LOL!

Wait?? Since when has anything the FAA has done ever made sense???

 

[BigAl07]

One thing to note... the whole Airspace Authorization process "should" change in the next 9 months or so. Everything in this thread could be irrelevant after June of 2018.

Who knows what will be different at that time???

 

[Just Mark]

One thing to note... the whole Airspace Authorization process "should" change in the next 9 months or so. Everything in this thread could be irrelevant after June of 2018.

Who knows what will be different at that time???

On the other hand, I think congress still has to extend authorization to the FAA, and if I understand correctly, congress - in all its wisdom - is hoping to change the ATC system (I think they want to privatize it).

Now, I know that congress is a speedy, efficient and effective legislative body that would never put self-interests ahead of common good. However, unless authorization has already happened and I am not aware of it, there is a slight chance that might drop the ball on this. Personally I think it is unlikely congress would make a mistake, since the last time congress EVER had a brain cramp was when we allowed women the right to vote... who thought THAT was a good idea???

 

[P3$E pilot]

One thing to note... the whole Airspace Authorization process "should" change in the next 9 months or so. Everything in this thread could be irrelevant after June of 2018.

Who knows what will be different at that time???

I hope they will read the comments here and implement sensible rules for all classes of sUAS.

HAHAHAHA!

I seriously think that AOPA is being a good advocate and you should let them know what's important for you so they can take a strong position you agree with. [Disclaimer: I am an AOPA member, but nothing beyond that.]