Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other news

[DBS]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Jeeez... Just look a the color wires in DJI's own marketing photo. Sure looks like the wires are insulated with heat sensitive heat-shrink material. If that's a new motor, the insulation should be perfectly symmetrical around the wire. Why in the world would they choose to do that??? Cheaper? Not enough insulated wire available? Has anyone confirmed it's heat-shrink material they are using?

It's because they just extended the wire used to wrap the motor windings long enough to reach and solder to the ESC...

Looks like a set of two are bundled together and heat shrink is slid up to the coil ... There's some markings on the heat shrink that aren't wire gauge markings look more like temperature and diameter.

You can see the two strands here...

How lovely, solid strand wire in a vibrating platform. Also a thinner gauge far away from the copper mass that would allow it to heatsink... Awesome engineering...

I know right? ...

Sick feeling... I was gonna flip the wiring on this install and run it up against the body with hot glue... But then I thought " ahhhhhh follow the picture on the DJI site ... Must be fine if they're coming from the factory that way"

I should follow my gut... All my other mod installs survived the crash...

My Battery bay Flytrex install... Still rock solid
(before accident pic)

My smart battery 6600mAh stealth install... Solid as a rock... Battery didn't pop out... Didn't unplug... Board still mounted solid...
(Before accident install)

If I just woulda had the same "bulletproof" mentality when installing "their" recommended mod.... I would still be in the air right now...

If anybody is gonna install this upgrade... You need to route the wire away from the MOSFETs ... And secure the wire from vibration with hot glue or some other means

The last few posts I read about ESC failure recently all seem to have a wire touching the MOSFET that got burned as well... Usually the black one...

Can't install that way with heat shrink tubing on stiff wire...

 

[mede8er]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Thanks for the update....so it's not stranded wire to the esc but hard wire, which allows for such a clean break...

 

[DBS]

The Story... and the Flytrex mission file

The story of my flight that day...

Just in case anybody gives a hoot :|

I went out that morning to try out new itelite antenna prototypes while running Vision + Utility Pro WiFi booster... Then I backed off of that idea... I was by myself... No spotters ... And I kept hearing a small airplane not too far off... Light fog... So screw it... Not a good idea to go out 2 miles in that situation... So I stayed on the property... Upgrade was running good with a half dozen or more flights under it's belt... So I went for the old "how far can YOU fly" record we had going a couple months back...

Couple minutes on the ground connecting and acquiring SATs... Launched and immediately pitched it full tilt into big circles around the property to keep the speed up... Was seeing 42 to 45mph sprints on the downwind leg... And only 28 to 31-ish coming back upwind... I was in the air for just 8 minutes and had already covered 4.8 miles ... On a battery that will do 22 minutes at full forward speed.. I was golden... I woulda smashed the old number on the leaderboard... But then yeah...

For the amount of times I crossed water ... I guess I was lucky to get it back...

Bottom pin is launch... Top pin is crash

There's something wrong with the Flytrex data for speed in the graph... I was full tilt the whole time so the speed should be staying between the numbers I quoted above for upwind and downwind... But for some reason the speed graph looks like I kept stopping and starting... And the top speed shown is 40 when I was happy to see during flight that I was well above 40 for all the downwind legs and that would help keep my average up for what I was trying to do ...
Weird... AND I can't export the **** mission for download... I want the CSV file for when I get the video file repaired... And I want the KML file so I can view it on Google Earth and rotate the crash mapping 3D... ( I've been dying to look at that)

Look at the hop at the end of the track line... You think it bounced?

 

[Phantom2_Duck]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- Flytrex data - Page

I am new and all but I'm glad you got it back.. Even if it crapped out over the water from that hight it still would hurt and you likely wouldn't have found it let alone anything useful afterwards...

Given the altitude it defiantly bounced.. I had mine bounce fairly dramatically just 100ft in the air when I lost a blade..

 

[DBS]

KML 3D on Google Earth ... {android}

Well I'll be dammed ... After my last post I tried the KML file download again and it worked... Looking at some 3D images now...


The scope of the area....

View of the motor cutout from the North...

Closer shot...

The bounce...

 

[syotr]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- Flytrex data - Page

Not much to salvage here but glad you found it. Sorry for your loss.

 

[gunslinger]

Re: Another one bites the dust - - Flytrex/KML 3D data - Pag

Looks like it stuttered and fluttered for a while right before dropping like a stone... May just have been forward momentum until it ran out of steam...

-slinger

 

[DBS]

Re: Another one bites the dust - - Flytrex/KML 3D data - Pag

Frank... DBS just lost his v3 P2V+ in a similar fashion. Have you two guys compared notes? It looks like there's a design flaw with the wiring between the new motors and ESCs...

-slinger

We haven't spoken together directly. But I saw where he felt like his situation was of his own making.

Took this quote out of another thread... just wanted to make clear in my thread that I never said any such thing... I feel like I did the install per DJI recommendations and my solder points held... some even said they look "cold"... so the theory that I over heated the wire and solder wicked up the strands doesn't make sense... you can see where I stripped the insulation that there's no solder up inside... there's a certain amount already on there from DJI pre-tinning the ends.

I think my talking about what I would do differently got misinterpreted... this upgrade is suspect... had I known that beforehand I would have taken steps to make sure something like this wouldn't happen.

I would also like to go after DJI and whoever else to get my Phantom replaced but I know how that works... my V+ has so many modifications they will find every reason NOT to replace anything...

Sucks...

 

[mede8er]

Re: Another one bites the dust - - Flytrex/KML 3D data - Pag

You really need to find out who Frank spoke with at DJI...send him a PM and get that conversation going. With all the followers you have on YouTube they may wish to work with you on this.... :mrgreen:

 

[flyNfrank]

Re: Another one bites the dust - - Flytrex/KML 3D data - Pag

Gunslinger said to come to your thread that you changed your mind on why your quad crashed. I told ya from the start I couldn't see you being the blame for it. There was just too many similarities with others who also had the same experience, and most are from the factory.

I spent the afternoon yesterday on the phone and after a couple calls with dji they sent several emails with a RMA and instructions on where to send my quad for replacement. And based on dji's phone tech support I'm the 1st one with either type of V3 (be it factory or added parts) to call in and that will be sending it in. That right there was a huge total shock. Considering how many have came on this forum alone that said they crashed the same way. I got the same response from the general manager where I buy my quads. He has not heard of it until my call yesterday. And that is from AtlantaHobby there is Atlanta Georgia that sells a ton of quads.

So I'm thinking a newbie owner just doesn't know any better and probably thinks he did something wrong, like not setting it up right or something. And then some from other dealers then the one I deal with may be replacing several of the quads which would be another reason the dji tech's are not receiving calls about the V3's.

Oh...before I forget big chuck, I spoke with the developer om the V+UP app and he said we should have a raw file inside our android device of the crash. This should be somewhere in the V+UP app. The raw file should have logged data to the point in which our batteries were ejected. If you don't get a response from me here, try a PM or you should still have my email if you need help in any way.

-Frank

 

[DBS]

FOUND MY PROP!!! Almost a week later... right in the road

Well this story just gets more and more rediculous...

Went back out to the flats today with mede8er for some flying and we decided to make an effort to find the missing prop from my crash...

Basic idea here is ... if it was near the impact zone and damaged , then something else brought down my bird... is it was back where the Phantom started losing altitude and undamaged , then i'm pretty sure a motor froze and the prop spun off and so on.

We flew our quads for quite awhile waiting for the early morning grass to dry out... then decided to head over to the crash zone for some serious pattern searching... this was gonna be some serious walking with deliberate grid patterns because a prop is a tiny thing to find in foot deep grass...

SO... armed with the 3D KML file on Google Earth... we drive over there...

As i pulled up to the crash site i noticed something on the side of the road about a hundred feet up ahead... so i kept rolling and stopped right in front of it.... :geek:

You gadda be kidding me... :roll:

Sitting right in the road for 6 days without a scratch... I must've been parked directly across from it the day i found the Phantom and probly walked by it three times the day of the crash... :?

So anyway... looks like the whole thing makes sense... prop was found pretty much back where the altitude started dropping and the phantom started tumbling in the air... off to the side a ways but wind and float factor into that.

Some other things in the past few days...

Took some time to pick my way thru the wreckage... started realizing that i could probly get this thing back together and fired up... (maybe if only to put the sd card back in and recover the video and see if the gimbal was operational) ... took my time ... went thru everything very carefully ...

Got the WiFi module straightened out and remounted ... Got the motor wire reattached ... Got the data pin wires soldered to where the socket ripped off the board... GPS socket straightened out ... Reciever board connections straightened out... inspected everything with a magnifying glass looking for shorts or cracks or hidden damage... Loosened up some screws to make sure none of the boards were stressed or flexed with the body damage... cleaned out motors with compressed air... gimbal blown out with air as well... lots of other stuff i'm probly forgetting but you get the picture.

Installed battery...
Single press.. Lights on smart board showed 2 bars.. Good that was where the last one died. (I have the 6600mAh mod so that is normal)

Long press to reset smart board... All four lights on. (good sign)

Quick press and hold... ... Hear the beautiful start up tones and then... KAFOOF!!! ... ... Flamed a MOSFET on one of the ESC's

NOT the same ESC that had the wire detached from the crash investigation... It was the ESC on the left front arm... The only other arm that DOESN'T have damage from impact.... and NOT the arm that was missing the prop when recovered..... :evil:

DirtySonofaBitch :twisted:

 

[DrJoe]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

Just got back from a quick vacation... so sorry to hear about this loss, DBS. I'm glad I haven't done the upgrade on my bird yet... there seems like there is 99 ways to fall out of the sky, and I don't need to add another! Best of luck, I hope to see you back in the air soon.

 

[DBS]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

Thanks Joe... thinking more about what possibly caused my crash and i don't think i'll ever be sure...

The wire that popped off could have been a result of the accident....

The fact that my Phantom stayed powered on for more than 30 seconds after impact... but then immediately flamed a MOSFET apon powering it up again a few days later...

Earlier in this thread people questioned my solder points but the fact is none of them failed...

There seem to be 3 strong theory's on the new upgrade and it's failures...

Shoddy wiring coming from the motor to the ESC as built at the factory...
Poor installation by the end user ...
Some sort of firmware/driver glitch that causes the ESC to fail...

I see a lot of argueing going on about this and I try to stay away from all that because my feeling is... everybody is right... if you take a product like this that may or may not have three very strong arguments pointing towards a reason for failure... then it would make a lot of sense to see a helluva lot of failures in a short period of time... which we have seen here.


sure miss flying that modded beast though... perfect weather this weekend

 

[mede8er]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

Replace that V3 stuff with your original equipment, maybe hani or jeremy have a used shell they can send you cheap, and get that bird back in the air dude!!!!!!!

 

[mede8er]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

Based on the information justin received from DJI I went to the Dronecamp website to see the upgrade kit you bought. I don't see the V2 stamp next to the QR code on those esc's pictured in the ad. Do your esc's have V2 next to the QR code???? This is what the correct model should look like.....

 

[garrock]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

mede8er... do you have an underside pic of the ESC board-module ???

 

[mede8er]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

No, that's the only esc pic on the dronecamp site for Vision+

 

[garrock]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

I am curious to see of the underside of the ESC can be rigged up with heat sink grease and a small heat sink. Or, some kind of heat sink rigged on the wire joint.

If the wire broke on DBS' phantom while in fast flight, then perhaps it was overheated and fatigued the wire-solder-joint.
Or, that darn ESC just decided to programatically spin backwards and loose the prop and the wire broke on impact with the ground.

 

[DBS]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

The LED's are on the other side of the ESC... And one of them is right under where the MOSFETs are mounted...

However...

I don't think our problem has to do with MOSFETs building up heat over time (which could be alleviated by a heat sink)

With several of these reports of failures saying it happened as they powered it on... Before they even spun up the motors... Or some saying just as they took off etc...

I still feel like this wiring is suspect on many levels... And there is also the firmware theory being explored thoroughly by other members... If DJI's claim that the 2.1 version starts to show positive results then we will know...

If the 2.1 update is not helping then I'm pretty sure that this wiring will be sorted out as being the problem...

To stiff... Too thin... Bad insulation choice... :|

And these are just the things we can see... Who knows what's going on up inside the windings when things outboard look this bad :evil:


Right now I'm just sick of the whole thing... I could've fixed my whole "sticky motor" problem for 20 bucks... But instead I sat around for 6 weeks waiting for $200 worth of parts to ship because DJI promoted them as "the next best thing for your Phantom upgrades" only to lose my entire investment because of that upgrade... Whatta shitty deal :x

 

[garrock]

Re: Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other n

I hear you DBS...

There has to be a common Mode Of Failure.

A Theory:

• 
  The Wire is getting VERY hot as the power demand is cranked up. Since the wire is surface mount soldered onto the ESC board, that creates a tiny bit more resistance at that point and imposes a bit more heat there.
  Every time that happens the wire-joint experiences that type thermal cycle spike, it accumulates a degrading effect on the copper wire at its weakest point. It become a "Self Eating Watermelon".
  
  Anytime heat at that location can be shunted away from the solder pad wire joint, the longer it will take to Self Eat itself until the failure time is in years; not months.