Another one bites the dust - FOUND MY PROP - and other news

[Chriserl]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Glad you were able to recover it. It sure to a hit but I guess falling from that height would do it. I follow a tali 500 thread and it has a similar issue with esc wires. Securing them with hot glue seems to have solved the problem. Hopefully you can salvage some parts, although the motor shafts on the gimbal look bent someone with some time and patience may be able to take it apart and get it working again.

 

[Sandman1962]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

I'm glad you found your drone.

And sorry if I keep beating the same drum...
But to still looks to me like there might be a heat related issue. Blowing up the pictures as large as I can, I can convince myself that the insulation on the motor wires looks like they have heat damage. Actually, looking again, I think I see bare wire in the red wire near the solder point .... The silver strands are visible!??

Since you have resigned to not rebuilding your drone, perhaps you'd be willing to conduct an experiment?
Have the motor just run when connected to your battery and see how hot the wires get. And if they melt?

If you leave them connected to the ESC, you could even document damage there.

Of course, I'm not sure what the maximum current/voltage the motor might get in real world situations.
Someone here should be able to help out. And then you might be able to conduct a real world working experiment.

I'd even be willing to PayPal you a few bucks for your troubles. And build up your new drone fund.

 

[flyNfrank]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

DBS, ****...... I read in my thread yesteray this happened to you. Sorry for not getting in here sooner but I'm totally bummed you also experienced this. This is not right to happen this time of the year. I actually have stuff I ordered for flying in cold air winter in shipment now. It will suck when it arrives.

I'm ready to go the extra mile to figure some of this out. I would rather we try to keep all technical stuff in one thread, whether it be in mine, yours, or a new one, but regardless in one thread. How do you feel about that? I tried to pay attention to each one of your post in this thread up to this point of my post here. And I cannot see any blame towards you in the failure. Those wires are not easy to break. I wanted to test before I posted, and I just took one of mine that the wire was pulled out of the solder with a chuck of solder still attached, and I folded the wire 3 times 90 degrees to each side and it didn't break. So this is using a wire that has been associated with heat and as I say the wire is melted into the chuck that stayed on it. Had you went against some kind of installation recommendations, then it maybe a different story. There needs to things in place such as, use this type of soldering iron at these settings, use this brand of solder for best results, never fly in temps below x degrees, do this after hard landings, and so on... That is just not the case here. And if they coming off the production line having the same issues, there is something seriously wrong and the customer should never have to eat the negligence of the factory. Ask General Motors on customers eating their faults.

So my quad is worse then yours, but I do think the camera/gimbal on mine would be a easy fix. It doesn't show any bad signs other then a small bolt hole. Everything moves freely with it. I know I could be wasting my time, but I really feel like DJI is responsible for what has taken place. Btw, I had both my flight logger recording data and I just posted images showing just before it rolled to the right side and dropped from the sky. Anyhow, let me know your feeling on the technical data. And again I'm sorry you also had to go through this.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

DBS I am happy you found your bird. Even though she suffered extensive damage there is still the satisfaction of knowing no bird was left behind! The missing prop is puzzling. Had it been ripped off on impact you would probably have found at least pieces and the center hub would almost certainly have still been attached. The broken motor wire may have happened from the impact. Looks like it sheered off right at the solder point and, with some wicking into the strands, it would have been stiff and could have snapped from the sudden jolt. I will note that those motor wires appear considerably thinner than those fitted to the stock motors.

Back to the prop missing. I have never bought into the theory that a prop just spins off due to inertia. If a motor hard seizes from high speed to a dead stop, I could buy it. But, if the broken motor lead is actually the cause of the crash, the motor would not have come to a sudden stop. It would have spun down smoothly. I only install my props with the barest amount of effort. I do make sure they thread on properly, and give them a slow spin just enough to make sure the threads bottom out. Yet I always need the prop wrench to remove them after a flight. They are so tight that I can't just grip the motor housing by hand and remove them. I always feel the completely missing props are either hub failure or the prop misthreaded and only a thread or two is in the hub.

Happy again that you found her and hope to see you change your mind about securing another one. That pretty lady you are sporting at least makes it more tolerable. Have a great day!

 

[Great Pumpkin]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

flyNfrank -
Eventually when you've been able to take a deep breath and can find the time, it would be extremely instructive to the rest of us if you would write and post a summary of the entire affair, from the mods you made, to the Phantom's flight history from the mods to the crash. Add your observations while it was in flight and while it was falling. Then include a detailed description of the damage, your opinions about what caused the crash, and THEN if possible, the real cause of the failure and crash. Much of this information is already in this thread, but it is scattered and written while you were still in panic mode and puzzled.

 

[justin00]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Thats great you found yours
Hopefully you can salvage it or sell for parts and make a little $$

Wether its due to your soldering or not.. Others have experienced wires melting, so who knows maybe yours melted at the solder end. there appears to be a few issues as Franks wires are all fine. As I said in Franks thread, wish others would take the shell off so we can see what is common between all you guys.

Btw... sent you a PM a few days ago.. If you get a sec could you reply pls

Happy pre new years !

 

[DBS]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Btw... sent you a PM a few days ago.. If you get a sec could you reply pls

Dude... That was yesterday morning at 8:07am EST... I was busy crashing my phantom at that very moment... Actually I was already out looking around for it... BUT anyway... Yeah... Jeezzzz man gimme a couple minutes to mourn my losses :lol:

I just responded... But here's the kicker... I don't know crap about what you were talking about... I had to do a bunch of research to answer the question and... BAAM ... Nailed it!!! Solid answer with pics and everything :ugeek:

Do I get extra credit for doing the homework? :?:

 

[justin00]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Lol I said when you have a minute !!

Thanks heaps for that. Cheque is in the mail, as well as a hamper filled with cheese, dips and a leg of ham for your loss

<insert trumpets playing>



Dunno what I'd do if it happened to me.. well after the crying stopped that is...

*edit* I replied btw.. thanks again for taking the time to assit, when your having these issues

 

[Chriserl]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Back to the prop missing. I have never bought into the theory that a prop just spins off due to inertia. If a motor hard seizes from high speed to a dead stop, I could buy it. But, if the broken motor lead is actually the cause of the crash, the motor would not have come to a sudden stop. It would have spun down smoothly.

This is not the case on a 3 phase motor. Losing 1 phase still leaves 2 live which will cause the motor to essentially lock up or cog back and forth in 1 spot. If it was to completely loose power it would wind down as you said but in this case it would stop and the prop would come off or could come off ( seen it happen).

 

[DBS]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

DBS - I'm glad that you went back out to find that bird. At least now you found out what happen instead of guessing what went wrong. You found closure.

I'm sure you went to bed on that night was and frustrated of not finding out the truth.

yeah bro... That was a sick feeling... I wanted to go out with a flashlight :roll:

Hey DBS, glad that you found the bird. I can lend you my phantom to recover your video file if you want. Let me know.

I'll be texting you tomorrow about the antenna deal and definitely would like to try plugging in this card... Thanks bro

Chuck, it's just so weird that I was having huge anxiety yesterday about losing mine.. I had no idea that you and Frank had lost your phantoms.. that really sucks.. I hadn't caught up in the forums at all..

Based now on what we know of yours and Franks evidence.. it looks like the only common denominator is that you guys actually soldered to your ESC's in doing the upgrade.. whether the solder joints were the best they could be or not.. that point of failure is a scary one.

But then, add in that some V3 owners are having similar issues.. it just doesn't add up that it was the installation at all to blame.

I actually did a long facebook post yesterday about my fear.. sheesh. This isn't about fear anymore.. there has to be a way to quantify these failures in more detail.. I wonder if there is a log file written in memory somewhere that might help identify the failure better?.. I know we can telnet into the wifi module -- similar to how we used to on the AR.Drone 2.0 (linux/busybox system) -- perhaps there is a system log file?.. but with so much damage.. getting that information out would be a challenge.. ugh.

Wow... Weird telekinetic signals being sent around there... I dunno about the log file deal... But I did recover my flytrex data... Something really strange about that file too but I have to look at it more and try sync it with the video on dashware before I start getting all weird about the anomalies...
Hey by the way... We're gonna need you out here first week of February... Garrock is coming down ... Serious testing will be going on for at least two days... Need pilots... I'll PM the details pretty soon here.

I follow a tali 500 thread and it has a similar issue with esc wires. Securing them with hot glue seems to have solved the problem.

I came so close to doing that on this install... Did it to my Flytrex... Did it to my 6600mAh battery mod... Did it to the external WiFi antenna relocation... But DIDN'T do it on the one thing that woulda probly saved my ***... Dammit :roll:

I'm glad you found your drone.

And sorry if I keep beating the same drum...
But to still looks to me like there might be a heat related issue. Blowing up the pictures as large as I can, I can convince myself that the insulation on the motor wires looks like they have heat damage. Actually, looking again, I think I see bare wire in the red wire near the solder point .... The silver strands are visible!??

I wanna address this comment real specific... I posted this in another thread but nobody noticed... and I think this is a huge problem... THE INSULATION ON THE MOTOR WIRES IS NOT INSULATION... IT IS HEAT SHRINK TUBING... That's why , even when the motors are coming new out of the box, the red/yellow/black coating looks odd... Uneven... Warped and twisty looking... Then when you go to solder it in place you can see it react to the heat very quickly... You need to be fast on the iron to solder this properly without damaging the coating on the wire... Then start to think... They put heat shrink tubing on motor mains that are too small and floating right over a bank of MOSFETs trying to roast their way thru the insulation... That's an accident waiting to happen... If I had this to do all over again I would do it very differently that's for **** sure... Shouldn't have to take extra steps to install something that's supposed to be an upgrade just to make it safe to fly... But I would have fixed that all up if I knew what I know now. :ugeek:

DBS, ****...... I read in my thread yesteray this happened to you. Sorry for not getting in here sooner but I'm totally bummed you also experienced this. This is not right to happen this time of the year. I actually have stuff I ordered for flying in cold air winter in shipment now. It will suck when it arrives.

I'm ready to go the extra mile to figure some of this out. I would rather we try to keep all technical stuff in one thread, whether it be in mine, yours, or a new one, but regardless in one thread. How do you feel about that?

I know what you mean about time of year... My favorite time to fly in the cold (cool) Florida mornings with no bugs and no wind... I have vacation time already taken for flying ... And now looks like I'll be watching... (Or flying my smaller acro) I have antenna samples to test... I have a guy coming from Massachusetts and one from Ohio to try their luck with BigChuck at the Milestone ... You just can't plan on an overblown toy with high hopes and low quality control on newly released hardware :| ...

You can go ahead with the technical stuff ... I just like to talk too much... Cuzz I'm old... And bitchy

DBS I am happy you found your bird. Even though she suffered extensive damage there is still the satisfaction of knowing no bird was left behind! hope to see you change your mind about securing another one. That pretty lady you are sporting at least makes it more tolerable. Have a great day!

Thanks DB... "No bird left behind"... Actually said those exact words when I came home with the wreckage... I won't argue the prop spin off theory... To many variables and " precise circumstances" it would take to make it happen even if you wanted it to... But yeah... Thanks for the kind words as always and YOU go have a great friggin day!!! I'm trying to be miserable for a little bit over here :evil:

 

[eyecon82]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Almost lost mine the other day. V3 here too. http://youtu.be/ogExIuRQHC0

 

[Luap]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

So it sounds like the solution to all this is to replace the wires going from the ESC to the motor with good quality thicker gauge wire.
Never soldered end of motor windings to electrical wire.
Is this doable with a normal soldering Iron?

 

[robinb]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

So it sounds like the solution to all this is to replace the wires going from the ESC to the motor with good quality thicker gauge wire.

That is not possible unless you can take the motor apart.

 

[DBS]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Back to the prop missing. I have never bought into the theory that a prop just spins off due to inertia. If a motor hard seizes from high speed to a dead stop, I could buy it. But, if the broken motor lead is actually the cause of the crash, the motor would not have come to a sudden stop. It would have spun down smoothly.

This is not the case on a 3 phase motor. Losing 1 phase still leaves 2 live which will cause the motor to essentially lock up or cog back and forth in 1 spot. If it was to completely loose power it would wind down as you said but in this case it would stop and the prop would come off or could come off ( seen it happen).

This how I understand it also... I've seen a bad ESC being tested with a loose connection and the motor would SLAM to a stop when one of the solder joints was wiggled around on that certain phase wire... I'ts a violent stop and you can feel the shudder go thru the whole airframe from the kick.

Pretty sure it's exactly what happened to me... The prop doesn't matter in this case though... The wire was completely off so the motor was dead and either way it was coming down ...

May have video here pretty soon.. Fell from 211ft ... Tumbling and fighting the whole time.... So you figure I'm gonna lose the last few seconds of video .... I might have the flight right up to the failure... That would be interesting to watch.

 

[burlbark]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

So it sounds like the solution to all this is to replace the wires going from the ESC to the motor with good quality thicker gauge wire.

That is not possible unless you can take the motor apart.

They can be disassembled and am working this all out now.

Jeremy James

 

[robinb]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

cool

 

[MapMaker53]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Jeeez... Just look a the color wires in DJI's own marketing photo. Sure looks like the wires are insulated with heat sensitive heat-shrink material. If that's a new motor, the insulation should be perfectly symmetrical around the wire. Why in the world would they choose to do that??? Cheaper? Not enough insulated wire available? Has anyone confirmed it's heat-shrink material they are using?

 

[gunslinger]

Re: Another one bites the dust

UPDATE:

And finally ... The Culprit
The yellow wire on the motor with no prop snapped just above the solder connection inside the insulation and pulled out... motor stopped... inertia spun the prop off the shaft... done deal... it was all freefall from there

So anyway... Don't think i'll try to salvage and rebuild any of this... there's enough damage to almost all the components that i wouldn't really trust it anymore... funny how it works out... the new motors and ESC's are probably the only things that are NOT damaged from all this... don't know what i coulda done different... solder job was done well and quick without heating things up for too long... but with these skinny friggin wires and all the vibration... a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link i guess :ugeek:

Are you frickin' kidding me??? They're using heat shrink on the ESC wires??? What could POSSIBLY go wrong THERE!!!???

I'm glad you got your bird back, at least there's a certain amount of closure to be had. And I'm very sorry she was damaged so severely. I really am at a loss for words regarding this issue. Even looking at the red wire... It just doesn't look like something I'd want under the hood of my bird... Again... sorry for your loss, man... and thanks for sharing this information with us. At least now we know...

-slinger

 

[Palcuz]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Jeeez... Just look a the color wires in DJI's own marketing photo. Sure looks like the wires are insulated with heat sensitive heat-shrink material. If that's a new motor, the insulation should be perfectly symmetrical around the wire. Why in the world would they choose to do that??? Cheaper? Not enough insulated wire available? Has anyone confirmed it's heat-shrink material they are using?

Sorry to hear of the carnage around here. I've been using phantom 2s for a few months. Built a couple before that. I used motors from rctimer. I've been running rc cars for a loooong time and have never seen THIS cheap /small gauge wire used like this.

My first batch of rctimer motors were great. Not the best wires I've seen but plenty good not to question. The second batch of the same motor (rctimer) had very thin motor wires. Maybe a bit thicker gage than you guys are showing on the new v3 and motor.

Metals must be in high demand in China, no?

I would think that the cheapo thin wires would burn up and show melting.

Would it be normal for Esc mosfets to burn first?

 

[mede8er]

Re: Another one bites the dust -UPDATE- found it!! - Page 5

Look at that freakin red wire....melted horribly....that esc must have been hot as hell....