Another near miss report

[sar104]

Drones posed 'significant risk' to passenger plane - BBC News

Interesting descriptions of the objects, at over 5000 ft, by the pilots involved.

 

[GMack]

Something odd about that article. Two meters wide (6 feet!) and white with four prongs? That's pretty big for a consumer drone. Then to see it again 30 minutes later, like a consumer drone batteries last that long at that altitude too. Might be military, at which point they'll have a good fight.

 

[sar104]

Something odd about that article. Two meters wide (6 feet!) and white with four prongs? That's pretty big for a consumer drone. Then to see it again 30 minutes later, like a consumer drone batteries last that long at that altitude too. Might be military, at which point they'll have a good fight.

And two of them - not just one, at 5500 ft. Of course they might have misjudged size - easy to do in the air. I wonder what the prongs are for?

 

[Jayfdee]

Very odd, and hard to believe, definitely not a consumer drone, and if a commercial drone, again harder to believe, and 2 of them, even harder to believe, and still up there 30 mins later, well you can fill in the "Hard, harder, even harder, no way", bit yourself.

 

[THA]

Pilot said they remained in visual contact with the drone. How long, gee they must have flying very, very slow and in a close circle. At 300+ knots, would have been out of visual of an object that small in only a couple of seconds

 

[Deleted member 62848]

Pilot said they remained in visual contact with the drone. How long, gee they must have flying very, very slow and in a close circle. At 300+ knots, would have been out of visual of an object that small in only a couple of seconds

Obviously there's a faa pilot who don't like drones,,he was probly smoking something

 

[sar104]

Pilot said they remained in visual contact with the drone. How long, gee they must have flying very, very slow and in a close circle. At 300+ knots, would have been out of visual of an object that small in only a couple of seconds

Well, if we wanted to be generous here we could assume 200 kn at 5500 on approach, which is approximately 100 m/s. If the pilots were correct that closest approach was 500 m then it would not be unreasonable for them to have visual contact out to twice that, say 1000 m, which would be over 1730 m of flight, or around 17 s.

The entire premise seems unlikely though, and I'm curious whether these investigations ever include an analysis of what kind of drones fit that description and have appropriate flight characteristics. If they do then that seldom makes it into the reports.

 

[Deleted member 62848]

Well, if we wanted to be generous here we could assume 200 kn at 5500 on approach, which is approximately 100 m/s. If the pilots were correct that closest approach was 500 m then it would not be unreasonable for them to have visual contact out to twice that, say 1000 m, which would be over 1730 m of flight, or around 17 s.

The entire premise seems unlikely though, and I'm curious whether these investigations ever include an analysis of what kind of drones fit that description and has appropriate flight characteristics. If they do then that seldom makes it into the reports.

HI could be those new drones that carries people all I can think of at that size...makes me wonder because NZ seems to have problem with laser pointers at plane cockpits,,,I know it's not good but how does a pilot see this in his window ...back to first part why didn't pilot take picture

 

[sar104]

HI could be those new drones that carries people all I can think of at that size...makes me wonder because NZ seems to have problem with laser pointers at plane cockpits,,,I know it's not good but how does a pilot see this in his window ...back to first part why didn't pilot take picture

No idea what kind they might have been. Regarding lasers - if the pilot can see the ground, which they have a reasonable view of in most aircraft to the front and sides, then they can see the laser beam.

It's conceivable that if you see a threat to your aircraft that is only in view for 10 or even 20 seconds, your first reaction is not to go hunting for your phone to take photos.

 

[Deleted member 62848]

No idea what kind they might have been. Regarding lasers - if the pilot can see the ground, which they have a reasonable view of in most aircraft to the front and sides, then they can see the laser beam.

It's conceivable that if you see a threat to your aircraft that is only in view for 10 or even 20 seconds, your first reaction is not to go hunting for your phone to take photos.

Sorry wasn't being cheeky just man on ground ..plane up there,,line of light beam,,,physics I guess....over here we always got weather pictures from plane cockpits why I said that but with you on that more important things to do than find a phone than take a pic

 

[Meta4]

Drones posed 'significant risk' to passenger plane - BBC News
Interesting descriptions of the objects, at over 5000 ft, by the pilots involved.

Here's the official report for this one: https://www.airproxboard.org.uk/uploadedFiles/Content/Standard_content/Airprox_report_files/2016/New_assessed_reports/Airprox Report 2016246.pdf
Interestingly the analysis and investigation section doesn't assess anything about the alleged drone but simply looks at what rules it may have breached.

 

[Meta4]

The press have two stories regarding drone/plane interactions.
There are the frequent near-miss stories like this and the increasing incidence of near miss incidents as shown from official reporting.

At least the UK have drone/aircraft incident reports public so they can be studied.
The US FAA did release listings for 2015 & 2015 but none since.
Looking at the British reports, you have to be skeptical about the number of high flying "drones" being reported.
They have had 60 below 2000 ft and 65 higher than 2000 ft (shaded) , going right up to 12500 ft.

Details in the reports can be interesting. Here are a few examples:

THE A320 PILOT reports departing from Heathrow RW27 when, in the climb out, at approximately 3500ft, a drone passed overhead the aircraft. It was close enough to identify that it was red in colour and the design seemed to consist of two modules.
It was difficult to judge the distance without knowing the size of the drone, but it didn’t look too far off the right wing, and so he estimated it was 50m away.

THE A320 PILOT reports he had just started a descent from FL100 to FL90 to join the Biggin hold when both crew noticed an object in the 1 o’clock position which had no lighting and appeared stationary. They tracked it for about 5sec as it passed down the right side. They both questioned 'Was that a drone? At 10,000ft!'. The pilot stated that it was clearly identifiable as a large drone and not a bird or balloon. It was dark in colour with a T-shape landing frame , with multiple arms and rotors (6-8) and passed just below the right wing. There was no time to react to the drone or to take avoiding action.The occurrence was reported to the Heathrow controller immediately and to Heathrow police on landing

THE A320 PILOT reports that during the intermediate approach from LAM at 7000 ft, a large drone was seen by the flight crew, moving in a relative position from the forward left to the rear left of the aircraft. He assessed the drone to have passed less than 100ft from the aircraft (~20m) and possibly within the wingspan. The drone itself was blue and disc-like in structure, with a single rotor, approximately 50cm in diameter. ATC (Heathrow Approach) was immediately informed and Heathrow police met the aircraft upon arrival in order to complete a crime report.
The pilot noted that here was a distinct possibility of damage if a collision were to have occurred.

THE A320 PILOT reports level and decelerating at 6000 ft on the base leg for RW05 at Glasgow when the First Officer saw a red and black drone, about 50cm x 50cm in size, pass down the left side of the aircraft, slightly below. The pilot noted that no action was possible in terms of flight-path change because, by the time it had been sighted and verbalised,it had passed behind. ATC was informed and police met the aircraft at the stand and the crew gave a statement.

THE B777 PILOT reports being on approach to Heathrow at 4300 ft, just past the BNN hold, when a large white drone, about 2m across and with 4 ‘prongs’, was seen in the right 1 o’clock position and then to pass down the right hand side at no more than 0.5nm from the aircraft.

 

[Deleted member 62848]

The press have two stories regarding drone/plane interactions.
There are the frequent near-miss stories like this and the increasing incidence of near miss incidents as shown from official reporting.

At least the UK have drone/aircraft incident reports public so they can be studied.
The US FAA did release listings for 2015 & 2015 but none since.
Looking at the British reports, you have to be skeptical about the number of high flying "drones" being reported.
They have had 60 below 2000 ft and 65 higher than 2000 ft (shaded) , going right up to 12500 ft.

Details in the reports can be interesting. Here are a few examples:

THE A320 PILOT reports departing from Heathrow RW27 when, in the climb out, at approximately 3500ft, a drone passed overhead the aircraft. It was close enough to identify that it was red in colour and the design seemed to consist of two modules.
It was difficult to judge the distance without knowing the size of the drone, but it didn’t look too far off the right wing, and so he estimated it was 50m away.

THE A320 PILOT reports he had just started a descent from FL100 to FL90 to join the Biggin hold when both crew noticed an object in the 1 o’clock position which had no lighting and appeared stationary. They tracked it for about 5sec as it passed down the right side. They both questioned 'Was that a drone? At 10,000ft!'. The pilot stated that it was clearly identifiable as a large drone and not a bird or balloon. It was dark in colour with a T-shape landing frame , with multiple arms and rotors (6-8) and passed just below the right wing. There was no time to react to the drone or to take avoiding action.The occurrence was reported to the Heathrow controller immediately and to Heathrow policeon landing

THE A320 PILOT reports that during the intermediate approach from LAM at 7000 ft, a large drone was seen by the flight crew, moving in a relative position from the forward left to the rear left of the aircraft. He assessed the drone to have passed less than 100ft from the aircraft (~20m) and possibly within the wingspan. The drone itself was blue and disc-like in structure, with a single rotor, approximately 50cm in diameter. ATC (Heathrow Approach) was immediately informed and Heathrow police met the aircraft upon arrival in order to complete a crime report.
The pilot noted that here was a distinct possibility of damage if a collision were to have occurred.

THE A320 PILOT reports level and decelerating at 6000 ft on the base leg for RW05 at Glasgow when the First Officer saw a red and black drone, about 50cm x 50cm in size, pass down the left side of the aircraft, slightly below. The pilot noted that no action was possible in terms of flight-path change because, by the time it had been sighted and verbalised,it had passed behind. ATC was informed and police met the aircraft at the stand and the crew gave a statement.

THE B777 PILOTreports being on approach to Heathrow at 4300 ft, just past the BNN hold, when a large white drone, about 2m across and with 4 ‘prongs’, was seen in the right 1 o’clock position and then to pass down the right hand side at no more than 0.5nm from the aircraft.

Wow good read ,,thanks interesting