550 Pilot's lounge

[ElGuano]

My F550 E600 has been sitting sans payload for a few weeks, it's currently very light-2200g, or 366g/axis. I could be flying this on E300s and it'd be fine.

In order to simulate a more loaded rig, I tied a 2lb lead weight to the bottom. That's 910g additional weight, which could be a gimbal, camera, FPV, a new more doodads, and a larger battery:

Final AUW: 3110g, or 518g/axis. That's still comfortably below the recommended load on the E600 motors, but I didn't want to just max everything out on the first try, and I wanted to take into account any minor efficiency loss from the Y6 format.

Results so far:

2200g, 5200mah 6S: 20 minutes 10 seconds (3.69v/cell resting) (motors and ESCs cool to the touch)
3110g, 5200mah 6S: 10 minutes 20 seconds (3.73v/cell resting) (motors and ESCs cool to the touch)

Clearly the 10C batteries I'm using are outmatched and outclassed. With the additional load, the voltage sag is so extreme that it triggers a 21.2v low voltage alarm prematurely, with a 1.18v line loss. I'll probably keep testing with these batteries, but will need to find better sets for real flight.

Next week we're looking at different prop options, this should really spice things up.

 

[OI Photography]

3110g, 5200mah 6S: 10 minutes 20 seconds (3.73v/cell resting) (motors and ESCs cool to the touch)

That's my exact record with a 5200mAh 4S @ 3100g...

 

[ElGuano]

That's my exact record with a 5200mAh 4S @ 3100g...

Walkera batteries :roll:

 

[OI Photography]

That's my exact record with a 5200mAh 4S @ 3100g...

Walkera batteries :roll:

True dat, the TP one I got for my 1.5 didn't end up doing me any favors and has long since been retired.

Multistar 6600mAh 4s arriving tomorrow, Maddog 2800 3S on the way too. I swear if I run one more battery of....battery tests, I'll earn automatic designation as an FAA test facility :roll:

 

[ElGuano]

That's my exact record with a 5200mAh 4S @ 3100g...

Walkera batteries :roll:

True dat, the TP one I got for my 1.5 didn't end up doing me any favors and has long since been retired.

Multistar 6600mAh 4s arriving tomorrow, Maddog 2800 3S on the way too. I swear if I run one more battery of....battery tests, I'll earn automatic designation as an FAA test facility :roll:

The multistars are pretty interesting, a few tests I've seen are showing they exceed their discharge rating. But for me, if 5200 10C doesn't cut the mustard, I don't know how much bigger I need to go before I'm in the clear...will probably just spring for larger $$ bats for the 550.

 

[SanCap]

I am also looking at the Multistar batteries. My 550 will be updated with the E300 propulsion, and I will be right at 1900 g without a battery. I can shed some weight also if needed. What battery do you suggest 5200 10C 3S (331 g) or 4S (433 g), maybe the 6600 10C 4S (537 g). What about 2 5200 10C 3S batteries. Maybe the 8000 10C 4s at 643 g? Obviously I would like to get as much flight time as possible. What are you thoughts?

 

[ElGuano]

I am also looking at the Multistar batteries. My 550 will be updated with the E300 propulsion, and I will be right at 1900 g without a battery. I can shed some weight also if needed. What battery do you suggest 5200 10C 3S (331 g) or 4S (433 g), maybe the 6600 10C 4S (537 g). What about 2 5200 10C 3S batteries. Maybe the 8000 10C 4s at 643 g? Obviously I would like to get as much flight time as possible. What are you thoughts?

At 1900g, you're already beyond the recommended thrust for the E300 even before the battery. That's not a huge deal since the E300 is really conservatively rated, but I would try to keep it under 400g/axis (2400g) to maintain maneuverability/longevity of the motors. So while any of those batteries will work, you're probably going to be happiest with a battery in the 500g range, unless you're just hovering most of the time and not flying fast.

 

[SanCap]

I am also looking at the Multistar batteries. My 550 will be updated with the E300 propulsion, and I will be right at 1900 g without a battery. I can shed some weight also if needed. What battery do you suggest 5200 10C 3S (331 g) or 4S (433 g), maybe the 6600 10C 4S (537 g). What about 2 5200 10C 3S batteries. Maybe the 8000 10C 4s at 643 g? Obviously I would like to get as much flight time as possible. What are you thoughts?

At 1900g, you're already beyond the recommended thrust for the E300 even before the battery. That's not a huge deal since the E300 is really conservatively rated, but I would try to keep it under 400g/axis (2400g) to maintain maneuverability/longevity of the motors. So while any of those batteries will work, you're probably going to be happiest with a battery in the 500g range, unless you're just hovering most of the time and not flying fast.

Thanks for the help! I set this 550 up for smooth slow flights for video and stills. I have a 450 for sporty flying and soon to have a second one. Trying to keep the weight around 2400g( I can remove some items off the hex to get the weight down) would It make sense to get 2 5200 10C 3S @ 661g or 1 8000 4S at 643g? Will I get use of the extra 2400 mah's by going the the 5200's?

 

[ElGuano]

I am also looking at the Multistar batteries. My 550 will be updated with the E300 propulsion, and I will be right at 1900 g without a battery. I can shed some weight also if needed. What battery do you suggest 5200 10C 3S (331 g) or 4S (433 g), maybe the 6600 10C 4S (537 g). What about 2 5200 10C 3S batteries. Maybe the 8000 10C 4s at 643 g? Obviously I would like to get as much flight time as possible. What are you thoughts?

At 1900g, you're already beyond the recommended thrust for the E300 even before the battery. That's not a huge deal since the E300 is really conservatively rated, but I would try to keep it under 400g/axis (2400g) to maintain maneuverability/longevity of the motors. So while any of those batteries will work, you're probably going to be happiest with a battery in the 500g range, unless you're just hovering most of the time and not flying fast.

Thanks for the help! I set this 550 up for smooth slow flights for video and stills. I have a 450 for sporty flying and soon to have a second one. Trying to keep the weight around 2400g( I can remove some items off the hex to get the weight down) would It make sense to get 2 5200 10C 3S @ 661g or 1 8000 4S at 643g? Will I get use of the extra 2400 mah's by going the the 5200's?

There are a lot of advantages to parallel batteries, including slower, smoother discharge with more even per cell voltages, and you will get the extra capacity over an 8000.You'll end up 10-15g more than adding up the packs due to the parallel cable you'll need, unless you physically mod the batteries together, so if you can lighten up the craft I would really recommend doing so.

 

[SanCap]

Thanks for that, I think I am going to choose a couple if the 5200 3S for the 550. Then I can use just one of them which will work fine on my 450's. No to try to find them in the states.

 

[havasuphoto]

Just love when this happens;




Yea-those are my engine mounts. And, the little brass blind nut insert completely pulled out of 1, and is getting ready to do the same, on the one next to it.
What I was doing was re-aligning my motors-just checking level, before re-doing my wires. And, I found that evenly tightening all four screws, I could not get the mount tight enough-it still wanted to rotate-and now I know why.

So, before I go any further, I need 6 new engine mounts!!!! Just great.....I love how you go to do 1 thing, and it ends up being a nightmare!! Every time I touch this aircraft, it's not just 1 simple thing that goes wrong-it's multiple things.

Well, I can still do my wires....they just won't be hooked up to the engines, as it looks like they'll all have to come off. I'm not trusting these old motor mounts with $300+ worth of engines, and $100+ worth of props.
And yes-I've contacted the manufacturer. Not going to name names or throw mud at them. I believe this was one of their first arm kits....so stuff happens. But-I'm not really please with this set-up right now.

 

[ElGuano]

Just love when this happens;




Yea-those are my engine mounts. And, the little brass blind nut insert completely pulled out of 1, and is getting ready to do the same, on the one next to it.
What I was doing was re-aligning my motors-just checking level, before re-doing my wires. And, I found that evenly tightening all four screws, I could not get the mount tight enough-it still wanted to rotate-and now I know why.

So, before I go any further, I need 6 new engine mounts!!!! Just great.....I love how you go to do 1 thing, and it ends up being a nightmare!! Every time I touch this aircraft, it's not just 1 simple thing that goes wrong-it's multiple things.

Well, I can still do my wires....they just won't be hooked up to the engines, as it looks like they'll all have to come off. I'm not trusting these old motor mounts with $300+ worth of engines, and $100+ worth of props.
And yes-I've contacted the manufacturer. Not going to name names or throw mud at them. I believe this was one of their first arm kits....so stuff happens. But-I'm not really please with this set-up right now.

Bummer. I'm surprised the inserts go all the way through on such a thin design. You would think they would be pressed into a countersunk hole on the opposite side of the screw insertion.

 

[havasuphoto]

Yea-you would think that. And hopefully they have a new and improved version....because these 6 mounts are going into the trash. I'm lucky-could have spun a motor and caused a crash.
I'm sure this was probably causing a large degree of instability with the 12" props.

EDIT: Just found that 1 of my 6 arms also rotates inboard-so I'll have to tighten that mount as well.....hopefully it doesn't pull out the blind nut.
Another EDIT: got all the old engine to ESC wires out and replaced with new. Old wires weighed in at 140 grams, new wires, 190 grams; so, not as bad as I thought-I only gained 50 grams.
OH-and no cold solder joint discovered on the rest of the engine wire bullet connectors.

 

[ElGuano]

The next step: 15+" folding props. This one required a little drilling for the install, but it wasn't as bad as I feared it would be, and the arms are plenty long enough to take the props. I could probably run 17" if I wanted to push it, but they'd start to overlap the frame a bit and I have no idea if the motors would burn out.

Looking at this, I think I've got to get rigorous about stress testing before an actual flight...

 

[OI Photography]

Looking at this, I think I've got to get rigorous about stress testing before an actual flight...

For the folding blades, or the whole rig with that much weight?

 

[ElGuano]

Mainly the props. They've got plastic spacers, steel bolts, nylock nuts, fairly strict tolerances for tightening...I can't tighten them as much as I'd like or else the folding/self-fanning will be impacted....I'm actually kind of concerned about losing a bolt and throwing a blade.

The weight itself is still under the "max recommended" load for the E600m even with that big green lead weight you can see tied to the bottom of the frame. I'm also unsure about how the longer props affect that, it'll probably take a few flights worth of testing.

 

[dougsnash]

ElGuano, that thing is just plain ole mean looking, I love it.

Doug M

 

[havasuphoto]

What's the pitch on those 15" blades? You're running E600, so that's 20Amp ESC?

Problem I'm having with running longer than 12" isn't the length-it's the current draw from the motor; the amps start to shoot way up. And-I'm limited to 30A.

 

[ElGuano]

What's the pitch on those 15" blades? You're running E600, so that's 20Amp ESC?

Problem I'm having with running longer than 12" isn't the length-it's the current draw from the motor; the amps start to shoot way up. And-I'm limited to 30A.

It depends on your load, but at 30A I think it's extremely unlikely you're anywhere near maxing out your ESCs...the E600s are 20A, but I also have zero payload, DJI rates conservatively, and with proper cooling the ESCs will run for bursts well above the rated drive.

I haven't done the math on mine, but it's drawing about 3C at hover from 10400mah.

Also, bit the bullet and went for a first flight. Really made me a bit nervous because of all the extra screws and bushings!

AUW has gone up from 2200 to 2240g.

Flight time has increased from 18-19 minutes to 23:00. And it is WHISPER quiet. The E600 was quiet before, but the new props sound like a lawnmower 1-2 houses down. The gains are way off now though, it's veering and overcorrecting like crazy. I'll need to adjust that before flying with payload.

As an added bonus, it does the whole "deploys the blades from folded position upon arming" trick. I get a kick out of that.

Edit: Blades are 15.6", 5.2 pitch.

 

[OI Photography]

How do the blades unfold and lock....is it like a cam or a ratchet?