Who will register their Phantom with the FAA?

[jlummel]

I don't think it quite works that way with the FAA rules. If it did, anyone living and/or operating their UAV 400 feet or more above sea level would be in violation. Hello Las Vegas, Phoenix, Denver, Boise, etc. I believe that AGL is the intended reference.

That's pretty much what he said (re: AGL being the reference, but WHICH ground). You may want to re-read his original message as he makes a VERY good point.

What if you are on a bluff overlooking the ocean that's 100ft up from the beach? You take off straight up to 400ft AGL then then move it over the beach below or the ocean? If you stayed over the bluff you would be 400ft AGL, but now that you are over the beach below you cross from 400ft AGL to 500ft AGL (the ground changed, not the quad BTW), and are now out of compliance with the FAA guideline on how high to fly (which is not a rule or a regulation, FWIW).

The DJI Naza will let you do this because it assumes the the take off point is 0 AGL for the entire flight, which in this case is 100ft higher than the beach you are flying over now.

 

[iowahill]

That's pretty much what he said (re: AGL being the reference, but WHICH AGL). You may want to re-read his original message as he makes a VERY good point.

What if you are on a bluff overlooking the ocean that's 100ft up from the beach? You take off straight up to 400ft AGL then then move it over the beach below or the ocean? If you stayed over the bluff you would be 400ft AGL, but now that you are over the beach below you cross a very narrow line from 400ft AGL to 500ft AGL (the ground changed, not the quad BTW), and are now out of compliance with the FAA guideline (not a rule, BTW) on how high to fly.

The DJI Naza will let you do this because it assumes the the take off point is 0 AGL for the entire flight, which in this case is 100ft higher than the beach you are flying over now.

Yes, sorry to have jumped so soon. But I think the argument will be brought to greater light the first time an operator is charged with flying above the existing and proposed limits after launching from a legal elevation.

On that note, I was walking on the bridge span just downstream from Hoover Dam (Arizona/Nevada border) a couple of weeks ago and wondered about how my P2 would act is I were to try flying 400' below my launch point i.e. the bridge overlook. Kind of scary to think of somehow losing control and watch it either fly off to another Western state, or plunge in the waters of the Colorado River! I'm sure a good number of intrepid operators have done something like this, and I'd be interested in hearing from them!

 

[jlummel]

[...] On that note, I was walking on the bridge span just downstream from Hoover Dam (Arizona/Nevada border) a couple of weeks ago and wondered about how my P2 would act is I were to try flying 400' below my launch point i.e. the bridge overlook. Kind of scary to think of somehow losing control and watch it either fly off to another Western state, or plunge in the waters of the Colorado River! I'm sure a good number of intrepid operators have done something like this, and I'd be interested in hearing from them!

I was wondering the same thing as I was writing the thing about flying from the bluff! How would it handle landing on the beach 100ft below? It should be able to handle it as I know I've landed my Phantom 1.1.1 where the ground was lower than my take-off point before, but only by a few feet. How it would handle such a large differential at 100ft, the 400ft you discuss? Would it be able to auto-land in such a situation?

Enquiring minds want to know!

 

[Wild Willie]

So will they be monitoring our flight patterns? What if we fly above 400 feet?

Why would you do that? Just because you can?

Dirkclod... do you know if they make these for the required 9" high visibility N# letters?

View attachment 33864

Jimmy

Funny

 

[Chuck Young]

The authority to require registration of commercial equipment only! But not hobby equipment, and as you point out above the FAA is prohibited by Congress from doing such.

If a change is to be made for hobby equipment, it would make more sense to change it to operate like a ham license than try some harebrained registration scheme doomed to failure in both the courts of law AND the court of public opinion...

The "adjustments" to the law I mentioned earlier were in regards to exactly that.

So does that mean Justin Bieber's jet doesn't need registered since he uses it to support his hobby?

 

[jlummel]

So does that mean Justin Bieber's jet doesn't need registered since he uses it to support his hobby?

It's over the weight limit, sorry...

 

[ResevorDG]

I was wondering the same thing as I was writing the thing about flying from the bluff! How would it handle landing on the beach 100ft below? It should be able to handle it as I know I've landed my Phantom 1.1.1 where the ground was lower than my take-off point before, but only by a few feet. How it would handle such a large differential at 100ft, the 400ft you discuss? Would it be able to auto-land in such a situation?

Enquiring minds want to know!

This reminds me of a thought I had. We have MSL and AGL. Those work great for aviation. We need an above obstruction level.
If you need to do work on a radio tower in texas, you may need to be 1500 feet up. This sounds dangerous but it's not, planes avoid radio towers and inspection of them could be done by drone.

If you launch from the roof of a sky scraper in NY you could be 500 feet AGL and still be below the the top of a nearby sky scraper.

 

[Chuck Young]

It's over the weight limit, sorry...

I would believe ya if it weren't for those **** taglines of yours.

lol

 

[iowahill]

This reminds me of a thought I had. We have MSL and AGL. Those work great for aviation. We need an above obstruction level.
If you need to do work on a radio tower in texas, you may need to be 1500 feet up. This sounds dangerous but it's not, planes avoid radio towers and inspection of them could be done by drone.

If you launch from the roof of a sky scraper in NY you could be 500 feet AGL and still be below the the top of a nearby sky scraper.

I think I'm getting a headache from all these choices!

 

[Chuck Young]

I think I'm getting a headache from all these choices!

I hve a bit of concern this spot a couple miles from where I live. If I am able to get to the top of the hill to the south there I will be at 1500 AGL with 25 feet or so clearance above the summit at 12,320 ASL.

 

[iowahill]

I hve a bit of concern this spot a couple miles from where I live. If I am able to get to the top of the hill to the south there I will be at 1500 AGL with 25 feet or so clearance above the summit at 12,320 ASL.

View attachment 34189

Go for it, Chuck. You might need supplemental oxygen, but no one will know any better except you and me!

 

[Chuck Young]

Go for it, Chuck. You might need supplemental oxygen, but noone will know any better except you and me!

Oh I will stay 400 AGL the whole time. You betcha!

 

[snerd]

People take such post serious regardless of the intent. And then they imitate.
People think that Bryce has really garnered respect by slapping some numbers on his quad and wearing a pilot hat. How many people will read that, slap some random numbers on their rig, and find an old pilot's hat to wear and think they are now a pilot?

Only the truly mentally-challenged reader would take that post seriously. I suppose you also think video games are to blame for all the violence in America today? You seriously need to lighten up, man. I "did" laugh out loud when I read that part about the pilot hat lol!!

 

[GoodnNuff]

Only the truly mentally-challenged reader would take that post seriously. I suppose you also think video games are to blame for all the violence in America today? You seriously need to lighten up, man. I "did" laugh out loud when I read that part about the pilot hat lol!!

First, please don't assume how I think or feel, and then attack me for YOUR assumptions. It is childish to try and attach how I may or may not feel about video games to your post to illustrate how you think I feel.

Second, you've insulted the forum member that did take that post seriously and commented on it.
You have no idea how people react to what they read here any more than you know how I feel about video games.

 

[vgt]

The DJI GO telemetry only measures 400 feet above the launch point, with no consideration for flying to lower elevations. Launch at 250 above sea level, fly up to 400 feet, and fly to the ocean. You are now 650 above "ground" and yet still haven't exceeded the 400 foot DJI limit, but are now out of compliance with FAA "guidelines"...

Inadequate altitude measurement abilities on the equipment you choose is not the FAAs responsibility. If you're standing on a cliff and fly over the water 250' away, it's your responsibility to understand the implications.

 

[iowahill]

Inadequate altitude measurement abilities on the equipment you choose is not the FAAs responsibility. If you're standing on a cliff and fly over the water 250' away, it's your responsibility to understand the implications.

A good and very important point. Whatever the situation, it is the responsibility of the operator to ensure safe and compliant flight. It will be the inevitable accident or infraction that will then guide our future compliance mandates on this issue. As a community we need to be respectful of the safety and privacy of others and strive to be safe in our flights.

Please note, we are not pilots. We are operators of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. Legalese might bring unintended consequences should you "draw outside the lines"!

 

[SteveMann]

They failed to act before the 2012 law and now they are prohibited from acting!

I believe the FAA is relying on this line from Section 336:

(b) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
​

The administrator is not authorized to make any new rules for model aircraft:

a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft,​

But, is it a new rule or regulation that is proposed? I am not sure because the rules for registration and aircraft marking have been in effect for decades, just not applied to model aircraft.

 

[SteveMann]

But I think the argument will be brought to greater light the first time an operator is charged with flying above the existing and proposed limits after launching from a legal elevation.

Except that there is no existing or proposed FAA altitude limits on hobby flight. The proposed Part 107 rules for commercial sUAS flight does have a 500 ft limit.

 

[NYPhantom]

Ok, here's the NPRM link: Small UAS Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM)

Here's a summary: Press Release – DOT and FAA Propose New Rules for Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems

Please note that the AGL (above ground level) altitudes specified follow terrain, so flying your drone off the hypothetical cliff situation is a good example of the need to pay attention to the terrain in your area of flight.

While drone operators are not "pilots", they are being subjected to some of the same rules and the methods of application to flight as aircraft pilots.

This is interesting, because the FAA is almost defining a new class of airspace specific to sUAV craft.

 

[snerd]

First, please don't assume how I think or feel, and then attack me for YOUR assumptions. It is childish to try and attach how I may or may not feel about video games to your post to illustrate how you think I feel.

Second, you've insulted the forum member that did take that post seriously and commented on it.
You have no idea how people react to what they read here any more than you know how I feel about video games.

Only in the most politically correct, bizarro world, would I be accused of attacking someone with my post. I don't subscribe to the new school thought police, but thanks anyway. And if someone was offended by my post, let me just say...................... wah , wah , wah!!!

You didn't think the pilot hat and N number joke was funny. I get it. I thought it was hilarious. That's all there is to it. But you think that now some who read that joke are going to go and actually do it. That's even more hilarious than the joke, and I'm laughing out load again lol!!