Want a Phantom, but now gunshy

[discv]

Miika, no I'm not joking about the idea that the Naza might have an inbuilt default home location.

Look at this another way. DJI have already admitted that the Naza has an inbuilt geo fence around the radius of 15Km from Tiananmen Square in Beijing, China.
Colin Guinn has also agreed that other governments might force them to program restrictions.

 

[Pacman]

When I installed the iPad Ground Station kit (and the PC software that comes with it) I discovered that the PC software has a configuration file where the default 'Home Point' is indeed in China - it contains the long/lat coordinates. So when using the PC to control your Phantom if the Home Point is not set correctly and you click the 'Go Home Point' option this is where it will go.

It is not a great leap of logic to assume that this same default configuration 'Home Point' location is built into the NAZA firmware. So if the Phantom doesn't register a 'Home Point' automatically via the GPS (or manually by you toggling IOC between CL and HL) then China is probably where it will try to fly to in case of RTH kicking in.

 

[discv]

When I installed the iPad Ground Station kit (and the PC software that comes with it) I discovered that the PC software has a configuration file where the default 'Home Point' is indeed in China - it contains the long/lat coordinates. So when using the PC to control your Phantom if the Home Point is not set correctly and you click the 'Go Home Point' option this is where it will go.

It is not a great leap of logic to assume that this same default configuration 'Home Point' location is built into the NAZA firmware. So if the Phantom doesn't register a 'Home Point' automatically via the GPS (or manually by you toggling IOC between CL and HL) then China is probably where it will try to fly to in case of RTH kicking in.

Bingo I've taken some serious stick trying to get this idea considered.
You didn't keep a note of those coordinates by any chance??

 

[miskatonic]

They are $379 today:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AGOSQI8...6WV1EDSV&pf_rd_i=384082011&pf_rd_p=1673798022

 

[Miika]

Miika, no I'm not joking about the idea that the Naza might have an inbuilt default home location.

Look at this another way. DJI have already admitted that the Naza has an inbuilt geo fence around the radius of 15Km from Tiananmen Square in Beijing, China.
Colin Guinn has also agreed that other governments might force them to program restrictions.

What you and Pacman just told makes the "Default RTH location/China" -theory to sound like its actually real. I will make some test with my Phantom, not letting it save the RTH location and turning RTH on. If this is true, it will explain A LOT of "fly-aways", because there's atleast three different scenarios where this could play a role in a fly-away.
1.The pilot is unaware of that you need to wait atleast 8 seconds with a good GPS signal before you take off. Although the pilot is aware of RTH function and when he turns it on the Phantom starts flying to China =D lol.
2. The pilot is aware of the "8 second rule", but as he is trying to be efficient or doesnt have enough patience... the 8 seconds turn into 7 seconds or less. And as the pilot turns RTH on, the Phantom starts to fly towards China.
3. Everything goes as planned, the pilot waits 8 seconds or more with a Good GPS signal... but somekind of a glitch/error/malfunction causes something that makes the Phantom not to save its current location. And Phantom flies towards China.

 

[Miika]

If the Default ReturnToHome location would be China it would explain a lot of the fly-aways where the Phantom has started to fly in awkward direction but has started to descend. It would not be because the place where Phantom descended was the home location, but as the batteries started to run out of juice the Naza made the Phantom land. Ofcourse the Phantom will "land" when battery runs out, but I've see a video where Phantom makes a "controlled" landing to unknown location with RTH.

 

[discv]

Latitude: 60° 10' North
Longitude: 24° 57' East
Initial heading: 78.9° EastEast
Final heading: 148.1° South-southeastSouth-southeast

If we are right, the above is the coordinates for Helsinki - followed by the course your phantom will take headed for China

 

[Miika]

Latitude: 60° 10' North
Longitude: 24° 57' East
Initial heading: 78.9° EastEast
Final heading: 148.1° South-southeastSouth-southeast

If we are right, the above is the coordinates for Helsinki - followed by the course your phantom will take headed for China

I just tested RTH with my Phantom v1.2 (firmware 4.02) by taking off immediately after I got the battery in. It was obvious that I didnt have GPS lock, because with the GPS mode on Phantom flew like a homing pigeon from Worms (the game). When I turned the RTH on, to my surprise it flied back to the position where it had gained the GPS signal and started descending. I flew the Phantom away from that location and turned RTH on again and it flew back to the same location and started slowly descending.

I have to test this once more and turn RTH on before it has a full GPS-lock.

Either the RTHchina happens due to a randomly occuring glitch or the "issue" has been solved in a firmware update. Either way I have experience of an RTH test when Phantom started flying into a wrong direction... that time I stopped it with my RC controller.

 

[Miika]

I located the place from googleMaps where the RTH made my Phantom fly into a wrong direction... and sure enough I think it was heading to china (would make sense, because with that heading it would had been the shortest direction). Dont know if I'm just mixing things up and assuming that that was what was happening. Although I had older firmware then.

 

[discv]

You are a brave man!
Bit by bit you are firming up some of my thoughts on real flyaways.

Real flyaways, where ALL Tx input is ignored [even no Tx input] cannot be duplicated. They are not caused by pilot error- you are introducing pilot error and it still has not happened.

 

[Pacman]

When I installed the iPad Ground Station kit (and the PC software that comes with it) I discovered that the PC software has a configuration file where the default 'Home Point' is indeed in China - it contains the long/lat coordinates. So when using the PC to control your Phantom if the Home Point is not set correctly and you click the 'Go Home Point' option this is where it will go.

It is not a great leap of logic to assume that this same default configuration 'Home Point' location is built into the NAZA firmware. So if the Phantom doesn't register a 'Home Point' automatically via the GPS (or manually by you toggling IOC between CL and HL) then China is probably where it will try to fly to in case of RTH kicking in.

Bingo I've taken some serious stick trying to get this idea considered.
You didn't keep a note of those coordinates by any chance??

Yes.

The default Home Point in the GS software is this:

<InitLatitude>22</InitLatitude>
<InitLongitude>113</InitLongitude>

Type 22,113 into Google Maps=China!

On the basis that the firmware must have a memory address to store the 'correct' Home Point, I suspect these coordinates are the default until overwritten. I cannot comment on 'Fly Aways', but maybe this neighbourhood has a nice collection of Phantoms!

 

[DaveTown]

Dave, if you're not ready to put the "boys" up on the table and threaten them with a claw hammer, RC flight in general is not the hobby for you. I don't want to seem harsh but all things in life have an element of risk in them and the amazing, out there tech involved in the Phantoms make them something to be very careful with. I have been flying mine for several months in the front yard and street and around high tension power lines. This is a high risk situation but I am learning obstacle avoidance and precision flying. I do have areas around that I am exploring, I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains, but I figure if I can scoot around the street and trees like I have been I will eventually be able to take on Triple Falls up in the Dupont Forrest, where they filmed the Hunger Games. I encourage you to think about if you can afford to lose a Phatom and a GoPro, around $1000, or not and if it is an issue then stick to RC sailboats. I have two and love the serene quietness of them on the lake!

Thanks checkssc, I appreciate your time in replying.

I think you misunderstood. My dilemma is not "Phantom vs. nothing". It's "Phantom vs. something better". There IS a quadcopter in the future, but all the fly-away reports made me think that my money would be better spent elsewhere.

I've since been convinced that the Phantom is a fair risk, and mine should arrive Wednesday.

Thanks again.

Dave Town

 

[DaveTown]

When I installed the iPad Ground Station kit (and the PC software that comes with it) I discovered that the PC software has a configuration file where the default 'Home Point' is indeed in China - it contains the long/lat coordinates. So when using the PC to control your Phantom if the Home Point is not set correctly and you click the 'Go Home Point' option this is where it will go.

It is not a great leap of logic to assume that this same default configuration 'Home Point' location is built into the NAZA firmware. So if the Phantom doesn't register a 'Home Point' automatically via the GPS (or manually by you toggling IOC between CL and HL) then China is probably where it will try to fly to in case of RTH kicking in.

Bingo I've taken some serious stick trying to get this idea considered.
You didn't keep a note of those coordinates by any chance??

Yes.

The default Home Point in the GS software is this:

<InitLatitude>22</InitLatitude>
<InitLongitude>113</InitLongitude>

Type 22,113 into Google Maps=China!

On the basis that the firmware must have a memory address to store the 'correct' Home Point, I suspect these coordinates are the default until overwritten. I cannot comment on 'Fly Aways', but maybe this neighbourhood has a nice collection of Phantoms!

This is an interesting finding. Based on this, I used a great circle mapper to see what route would be shortest to that approximate long. and lat. (see http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=acy-can&MP ... ff00&DU=mi - this shows the route from my local airport to CAN, the airport nearest Guangzhou, Guangdong, China that I could find). It would seem that from anywhere in North America, the track will be some flavor of north, up over the pole, and then down to China.

So the question would seem to be, are the copters involved in fly-aways heading north? And if that is the case, you can at least have an idea of where to start looking if your copter should bolt out of control on a flyaway or unauthorized RTH mission.

D.T.

 

[checkssc]

Dave, if you're not ready to put the "boys" up on the table and threaten them with a claw hammer, RC flight in general is not the hobby for you. I don't want to seem harsh but all things in life have an element of risk in them and the amazing, out there tech involved in the Phantoms make them something to be very careful with. I have been flying mine for several months in the front yard and street and around high tension power lines. This is a high risk situation but I am learning obstacle avoidance and precision flying. I do have areas around that I am exploring, I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains, but I figure if I can scoot around the street and trees like I have been I will eventually be able to take on Triple Falls up in the Dupont Forrest, where they filmed the Hunger Games. I encourage you to think about if you can afford to lose a Phatom and a GoPro, around $1000, or not and if it is an issue then stick to RC sailboats. I have two and love the serene quietness of them on the lake!

Thanks checkssc, I appreciate your time in replying.

I think you misunderstood. My dilemma is not "Phantom vs. nothing". It's "Phantom vs. something better". There IS a quadcopter in the future, but all the fly-away reports made me think that my money would be better spent elsewhere.

I've since been convinced that the Phantom is a fair risk, and mine should arrive Wednesday.

Thanks again.

Dave Town

Then I wish you all the fun you'll have and remind you to be careful. I love it and it has taken me to a level of R/C enjoyment I have fought for years to have. Welcome to the club!