Wow, this thread turned south so many times, my compass is messed up.
And with so much misinformation.
First, there is no FAA rule that says you can't fly a hobby drone for commercial purposes. Just because an agency "considers" an activity is illegal doesn't make it so. What FAA rule is violated by flying a hobby drone for commercial purposes?
However, getting your Section 333 exemptions will provide a small level of immunity from FAA enforcement action, and it is easier to get liability insurance when you have the exemption. Mostly because you have a pilot certificate. (The FAA does not issue a pilot's license - it's a certificate).
To fly a drone commercially under a Section 333 exemption, the pilot must have a pilot certificate. Section 333 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 does give the FAA wide latitude to exempt operators from specific rules. The FAA does not have the authority to waive the pilot certification requirement because it comes from a federal law in 49 U.S. Code § 44711 that requires all flight used in commerce be done on registered aircraft and certified flight crew. Only Congress can change the law in 49 USC.
The Part 107 rules, when finalized (next year?), will create a new class of Pilot Certificate unique to SUAS. There is no overlap or provision for grandfathering individuals who hold a sport pilot certificate or above. Everyone will have to take the written exam, but in fairness, the exam will cover SUAS-specific topics. As proposed, § 107.13 "Registration, certification, and airworthiness directives" says:
If you don't like it, you should have commented on the NPRM.
I am reading througn the forum replies/questions....
Here's one - "Should you file the exemption with your Name or the name of your LLC?"
If you are a sole proprietor, it makes no difference. But if you think you will ever hire a pilot to fly under your exemption, then you probably want it under the company name.
"You may want to have your Aviation Attorney re-visit the current stance of the FAA over non-333 commercial flights as they have officially started citing companies for this action. "
As stated above, what rule? The FAA Enforcement and Compliance division sends a civil penalty letter to the person charged with a violation. The civil penalty letter contains a statement of the charges, the applicable law, rule, regulation, or order, the amount of civil penalty that the Administrator will accept in full settlement of the action or an offer to compromise the civil penalty. No one has received a civil penalty letter stating any rule except 14 CFR § 91.13 "Careless and Reckless". If anyone is aware of any other rule in a civil penalty letter, I would like to know.
UNLESS... And this is the gotcha that the FAA has been using to pursue enforcement.
Unless you have an FAA - issued airman certificate. Then the FAA can nail you for 14 CFR §61.113 "Private pilot privileges and limitations-Pilot in command" or 14 CFR §61.101 "Recreational pilot privileges and limitations" which both have an explicit prohibition of commercial flight.
So, if you are a certificated pilot, you're screwed because the FAA can and does pursue §61.113 and §61.101 certificate actions for commercial drone operations. You need the Section 333 exemption. If you do not have a pilot certificate, then there is no FAA rule prohibiting you from flying a drone for commercial purposes. In the few cases that have attracted FAA attention that I am aware of (about 20 cases), the charge has always been 14 CFR § 91.13 "Careless and Reckless".
Reading further...
"The main reason the FAA wants it though in my opinion is so you have a certificate they can take if you break the rules."
Yes, the FAA prefers certificate actions over civil penalties. It's less paperwork and they don't run the risk of a precedent being set if the case goes to the full NTSB panel.
Here's a comment of interest, though not on topic:
"For the record (And this is going to ruffle a lot of feathers) I think every one of our RC aircraft/UAV/UAS/Drone/MR should have some form of identification linking back to the pilot. This way if something goes wrong there is a chance it can be tracked back to the operator. If you're man enough to fly the aircraft you should be man enough (or woman) to take full responsibility for any actions associated with the aircraft."
I wrote an article on this very subject at Robotics Trends.
If you want to comment on it, start a new thread.
And the last one...
"Per 13 [Secton 333 exemption Conditions and Limitations, usually line 13] you must hold a pilots certificate to act as PIC (pilot in command). Per 14 you must be able to operate it safely and be current (not sure how they will do this, 3 logged takeoff and landings in last 90 days?) to act as PIC."
The C&L don't say that the logged takeoffs and landings have to be in a commercial setting under the Section 333 exemption. Go to a field and fly as a hobby operator to get your future PIC familiar with your aircraft and to log the three takeoffs and landings. (I guess they don't like to see fewer landings in a logbook than takeoffs). But you are correct, any PIC has to be certificated.
So, OP - Are you thoroughly confused yet?
By the way, it costs nothing to apply for the Section 333 exemption yourself and you do not need a pilot certificate to apply for or obtain the exemptions. So, get the exemption and hire a local pilot to fly it for you while you act as the Visual Observer (conditions and Limitations line 6: "All operations must utilize a visual observer (VO)."). This way you can build the business end without the expense of getting a pilot certificate for a Cessna. If there's little business to be had, then fire your pilot and sell your drones. Or just fly for fun. If business takes off (pun intentional), then keep the pilot, buy more drones and go get your pilot certificate.
And with so much misinformation.
First, there is no FAA rule that says you can't fly a hobby drone for commercial purposes. Just because an agency "considers" an activity is illegal doesn't make it so. What FAA rule is violated by flying a hobby drone for commercial purposes?
However, getting your Section 333 exemptions will provide a small level of immunity from FAA enforcement action, and it is easier to get liability insurance when you have the exemption. Mostly because you have a pilot certificate. (The FAA does not issue a pilot's license - it's a certificate).
To fly a drone commercially under a Section 333 exemption, the pilot must have a pilot certificate. Section 333 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 does give the FAA wide latitude to exempt operators from specific rules. The FAA does not have the authority to waive the pilot certification requirement because it comes from a federal law in 49 U.S. Code § 44711 that requires all flight used in commerce be done on registered aircraft and certified flight crew. Only Congress can change the law in 49 USC.
The Part 107 rules, when finalized (next year?), will create a new class of Pilot Certificate unique to SUAS. There is no overlap or provision for grandfathering individuals who hold a sport pilot certificate or above. Everyone will have to take the written exam, but in fairness, the exam will cover SUAS-specific topics. As proposed, § 107.13 "Registration, certification, and airworthiness directives" says:
"No person may operate a civil small unmanned aircraft system for purposes of flight unless:
(a) That person has an unmanned aircraft operator certificate with a small UAS rating issued pursuant to Subpart C of this part and satisfies the requirements of § 107.65;"
(a) That person has an unmanned aircraft operator certificate with a small UAS rating issued pursuant to Subpart C of this part and satisfies the requirements of § 107.65;"
If you don't like it, you should have commented on the NPRM.
I am reading througn the forum replies/questions....
Here's one - "Should you file the exemption with your Name or the name of your LLC?"
If you are a sole proprietor, it makes no difference. But if you think you will ever hire a pilot to fly under your exemption, then you probably want it under the company name.
"You may want to have your Aviation Attorney re-visit the current stance of the FAA over non-333 commercial flights as they have officially started citing companies for this action. "
As stated above, what rule? The FAA Enforcement and Compliance division sends a civil penalty letter to the person charged with a violation. The civil penalty letter contains a statement of the charges, the applicable law, rule, regulation, or order, the amount of civil penalty that the Administrator will accept in full settlement of the action or an offer to compromise the civil penalty. No one has received a civil penalty letter stating any rule except 14 CFR § 91.13 "Careless and Reckless". If anyone is aware of any other rule in a civil penalty letter, I would like to know.
UNLESS... And this is the gotcha that the FAA has been using to pursue enforcement.
Unless you have an FAA - issued airman certificate. Then the FAA can nail you for 14 CFR §61.113 "Private pilot privileges and limitations-Pilot in command" or 14 CFR §61.101 "Recreational pilot privileges and limitations" which both have an explicit prohibition of commercial flight.
So, if you are a certificated pilot, you're screwed because the FAA can and does pursue §61.113 and §61.101 certificate actions for commercial drone operations. You need the Section 333 exemption. If you do not have a pilot certificate, then there is no FAA rule prohibiting you from flying a drone for commercial purposes. In the few cases that have attracted FAA attention that I am aware of (about 20 cases), the charge has always been 14 CFR § 91.13 "Careless and Reckless".
Reading further...
"The main reason the FAA wants it though in my opinion is so you have a certificate they can take if you break the rules."
Yes, the FAA prefers certificate actions over civil penalties. It's less paperwork and they don't run the risk of a precedent being set if the case goes to the full NTSB panel.
Here's a comment of interest, though not on topic:
"For the record (And this is going to ruffle a lot of feathers) I think every one of our RC aircraft/UAV/UAS/Drone/MR should have some form of identification linking back to the pilot. This way if something goes wrong there is a chance it can be tracked back to the operator. If you're man enough to fly the aircraft you should be man enough (or woman) to take full responsibility for any actions associated with the aircraft."
I wrote an article on this very subject at Robotics Trends.
If you want to comment on it, start a new thread.
And the last one...
"Per 13 [Secton 333 exemption Conditions and Limitations, usually line 13] you must hold a pilots certificate to act as PIC (pilot in command). Per 14 you must be able to operate it safely and be current (not sure how they will do this, 3 logged takeoff and landings in last 90 days?) to act as PIC."
The C&L don't say that the logged takeoffs and landings have to be in a commercial setting under the Section 333 exemption. Go to a field and fly as a hobby operator to get your future PIC familiar with your aircraft and to log the three takeoffs and landings. (I guess they don't like to see fewer landings in a logbook than takeoffs). But you are correct, any PIC has to be certificated.
So, OP - Are you thoroughly confused yet?
By the way, it costs nothing to apply for the Section 333 exemption yourself and you do not need a pilot certificate to apply for or obtain the exemptions. So, get the exemption and hire a local pilot to fly it for you while you act as the Visual Observer (conditions and Limitations line 6: "All operations must utilize a visual observer (VO)."). This way you can build the business end without the expense of getting a pilot certificate for a Cessna. If there's little business to be had, then fire your pilot and sell your drones. Or just fly for fun. If business takes off (pun intentional), then keep the pilot, buy more drones and go get your pilot certificate.
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