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FPV you say? Been there, seen it, built it, flown it, crashed it, built it, flown it, crashed it, built it ...... bought a Phantom, flown it, flown it, flown it. You get the picture ;-)
Have any of you Phantom Pilots stepped into FPV racing?
- Thread starter mrgoodwrench
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So far it's everything and more that I've seen and read on it. Time will tell on reliability and durability, but there is no denying the great flight characteristics, speed and agility. You find this out within 5 mins of flying this beast...
Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
Need to come back to this:
Im not sure at all you have ever flown without attitude mode / autoleveling. The beginner quads you listed all have 6 axis gyro's and self leveling and AFAIK, you cant disable it on those (other then briefly by pressing a button to make it auto flip).
So what you have flown is quads without altitude (note the L, as in height) hold or GPS position hold, but almost certainly with attitude mode , aka as self leveling. From there to acro mode (no self leveling) is a big step honestly. Its one you can postpone, since pretty much all flight controllers have attitude mode as well, but I would urge you to learn to fly in acro mode from the get go. Its harder at first, you will crash (often), but once you get the hang, its more intuitive for FPV, allows you much more accurate control and of course, do proper aerobatics.
Im not sure at all you have ever flown without attitude mode / autoleveling. The beginner quads you listed all have 6 axis gyro's and self leveling and AFAIK, you cant disable it on those (other then briefly by pressing a button to make it auto flip).
So what you have flown is quads without altitude (note the L, as in height) hold or GPS position hold, but almost certainly with attitude mode , aka as self leveling. From there to acro mode (no self leveling) is a big step honestly. Its one you can postpone, since pretty much all flight controllers have attitude mode as well, but I would urge you to learn to fly in acro mode from the get go. Its harder at first, you will crash (often), but once you get the hang, its more intuitive for FPV, allows you much more accurate control and of course, do proper aerobatics.
Almost forgot. You can get in to the hobby for $10. Actually for free by just playing the demo:
FPV Freerider Recharged by FPV Freerider
Its really good and feels very close to the real thing.
That is assuming you have a suitable 4 axis game controller, or RC radio you can connect to your PC.
Highly recommended also to anyone who has or wants to buy a racing quad.
FPV Freerider Recharged by FPV Freerider
Its really good and feels very close to the real thing.
That is assuming you have a suitable 4 axis game controller, or RC radio you can connect to your PC.
Highly recommended also to anyone who has or wants to buy a racing quad.
Thanks Vertigo. Tried the demo and its not bad. Much like all the other simulators I've tried, its nothing like the real thing. I grew up playing a lot of video games and that's what most of the simulators seem like to me only worse. I would say that helicopter flight on FlightSimX for PC is far more educational than any of the simulators I've tried. Very realistic but no quads yet. I think the biggest thing missing from the simulators is the pain of crashing your expensive toy. They should set the simulators up to shock you when you crash or do something wrong. Then people might learn something from them 
I did order the Eachine racer, should have it in my hand Friday. Should I order spare parts now or wait till Saturday to see what I break?
Now to start the research on goggles.......
Why would you consider FPV racing a different hobby all together?
According to my wife, I just have one hobby, fun. Who knew you could wrap RC Cars, trucks, boats, planes, heli's, quads, guns, 4wheeler's (different kind of quad all together), crotch rockets, and well endowed red heads all into one bundle?
I did order the Eachine racer, should have it in my hand Friday. Should I order spare parts now or wait till Saturday to see what I break?
Now to start the research on goggles.......
Why would you consider FPV racing a different hobby all together?
According to my wife, I just have one hobby, fun. Who knew you could wrap RC Cars, trucks, boats, planes, heli's, quads, guns, 4wheeler's (different kind of quad all together), crotch rockets, and well endowed red heads all into one bundle?
Im surprised you say that. Not sure if you are comparing the sim to your phantom or a 250 racer, but I think its actually a decent simulation of a quad racer, especially if you tweak the physics settings a little (requires paid version). Its certainly good enough to practice acro mode flying and spending some hours with it, will save you a bazillion props.
You'll need props for sure. Lots of them. I guess it doesnt matter too much which ones in the beginning, but I do like to fly with HQprops, or DAL unbreakables. On 3S, I usually fly 5x4 props.
Did you pick a transmitter yet, or do you already have one?
IMO 250 FPV racing shares as much with Phantom flying as highway cruising on a Harley Davidson shares with extreme offroading on a dirt bike.
The simulator version I used was the free one. Maybe my opinion would differ on the paid version but I doubt it. I think you may be underestimating my skill set. I'm no professional drone operator but I bet I would surprise you. Or maybe by Saturday I'll have a pile of broken eachine parts, time will tell. Either way, I'll post the results of my maiden flight.
I see the kit came with one extra set of props. I almost ordered more at the same time but I wasn't sure what to get. Are there props specifically for the Eachine 250 or are they interchangeable?
The drone I ordered was a RTF kit with transmitter, camera, monitor and all. I'll likely switch to one of the transmitters I already have once I get a set of goggles. Have to make do with the monitor for now. Looks like the goggles will cost me about the same as the quad.
Eachine Racer 250 FPV Drone w/ Eachine I6 2.4G 6CH Transmitter 7 Inch 32CH Monitor HD
Possibly, but unlikely to change the outcome. The video's Ive posted from FinalGlideAUS, he's arguably the most skilled race quad pilot I know. He crashes all the time. Crashing is just part of flying FPV race drones. You probably can fly without crashing, by not doing any high speed proximity flying or acrobatics, and flying the way you would fly a phantom, but improving your skills is gong to lead to many, many crashes. Lets put it this way, if you never crash, you're doing it wrong
More over, you didnt reply to my afterthought on acro mode. I still think you have no experience in acro mode, and going from attitude to acro mode is gonna cost you a small pile of props. At least I know it did for me.
They are interchangeable. You just need 5" props (probably 5030 - 5045). The hub diameter varies, but most/all props come with plastic rings to adapt to all common diameters
Goggles range from $40 to $800+. No need to break the bank. Try these:
Quanum DIY FPV Goggle V2 Pro
Even if you dont like them, or if/when later you want to buy a better goggle, they can serve as "passenger" goggle. But from what I read, they are actually surprisingly good, despite a ridiculous low price tag.
Decided to end my year of only reading this forum to say this post just doubled my investment in drone hardware. I have a Vortex 250 Pro and trimmings coming next week. I also ordered the HDMI kit for my Phantom so I can use the FPV goggles on that too.
I didn't reply specifically to your afterthought as I was in a bit of a hurry last night and wasn't sure how to explain it. Some of the cheaper quads I started out with did auto level to an extent. The auto level rapidly changed as battery voltage decreased so for the first few minutes, it would auto level. After that, your either constantly trimming to level or you do as I do, say heck with it, and manually find level. I'll admit, it requires far more concentration but I also feel like I have more control over the bird in those situations.
I did pick up a pair of these Universal 3D Virtual Reality Glasses VR Goggle
They seem ok. I think the problem I have is more with my phone than the goggles. The software doesn't seem to keep up very well. What app do you use?
Glad to hear it. I have to admit, I laughed out loud when I read your post. Investment? Is that what you tell your wife? Hmmm. You might be on to something.
I see your in St. Louis. If you ever make it over to KC hit me up. I have 5 acres in the back yard that I've dedicated to RC. Got a few tracks for the cars and I'll very soon be putting up pylons of some sort to mark off a track for the quads.
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The phantom is great at what it was designed for, which is a flying camera platform. As someone else said, it is completely different than flying an fpv racer mini quad. Maybe 5% of what you learn on a phantom will translate into skills for flying an fpv racer, they are THAT different! Having said that, I can't recommend this new hobby enough - I have so much fun flying in different places, and it is a real adrenaline rush.
I came across them around October, and spent about 5 months buying parts here and there, until I was finally able to get everything and start building it.
It is a very technical hobby, with lots of tinkering and troubleshooting - and that's before you even get up in the air!
I would definitely recommend buying fpv freerider - it is very cheap and you will learn so much! Watch all the videos by Joshua Bardwell about learning FPV using freerider, and practice, practice, practice. Learn with rate mode straight away, forget about stabilization mode, just bite the bullet and force yourself. It will seem extremely hard at first, but it will be worth it. I hook up my transmitter and my goggles to my pc, it is very similar to the real thing, and most importantly you learn muscle memory.
When it comes to buying equipment, as with most things, you get what you pay for. For me it probably cost close to $1000 in parts, but that was for everything. Remember you are talking about the frame, motors, electronics, fpv system, hd camera (optional but you will want it eventually), batteries, charger (multi if possible), controller, goggles, and spare parts. There is a high cost to get started in this hobby, but a relatively low cost to maintain it. The options when it comes to building mini quads are almost endless, but try not to go cheap - you will end up with a bad experience that will put you off the hobby.
You could buy a pre-built quad for say $400, crash hard the first day out, and not be able to fix it because of proprietary parts - much better to build it yourself and learn all kinds of invaluable information in the process. An excellent resource is to search for rcmodelreviews on youtube, and watch his build videos.
I would encourage anyone interested in learning more about this to go to rcgroups.com and read up on the following: betaflight, blheli, esc's, flight controllers, 2204 and 2204 motors, vtx's, receivers, taranis, fatshark goggles, headplay hd (i have these). That's all I can think of for now.
One final piece of advice, buy lots of props! They are very cheap and you will break lots of them as you are learning. Find a big open field and practice all of the basics over and over.
I have only been flying FPV since April, but if you want to take a look at my video you will see what a few months of practice will do. When you see the crash at the end, think of how much that would cost you on a phantom. It cost me about $1 - I broke 2 props.
You will not regret getting into this new hobby. PM me if you have any questions.
For some fun fpv videos, go check out Rotor Riot. Those guys have a blast!
MJ
I came across them around October, and spent about 5 months buying parts here and there, until I was finally able to get everything and start building it.
It is a very technical hobby, with lots of tinkering and troubleshooting - and that's before you even get up in the air!
I would definitely recommend buying fpv freerider - it is very cheap and you will learn so much! Watch all the videos by Joshua Bardwell about learning FPV using freerider, and practice, practice, practice. Learn with rate mode straight away, forget about stabilization mode, just bite the bullet and force yourself. It will seem extremely hard at first, but it will be worth it. I hook up my transmitter and my goggles to my pc, it is very similar to the real thing, and most importantly you learn muscle memory.
When it comes to buying equipment, as with most things, you get what you pay for. For me it probably cost close to $1000 in parts, but that was for everything. Remember you are talking about the frame, motors, electronics, fpv system, hd camera (optional but you will want it eventually), batteries, charger (multi if possible), controller, goggles, and spare parts. There is a high cost to get started in this hobby, but a relatively low cost to maintain it. The options when it comes to building mini quads are almost endless, but try not to go cheap - you will end up with a bad experience that will put you off the hobby.
You could buy a pre-built quad for say $400, crash hard the first day out, and not be able to fix it because of proprietary parts - much better to build it yourself and learn all kinds of invaluable information in the process. An excellent resource is to search for rcmodelreviews on youtube, and watch his build videos.
I would encourage anyone interested in learning more about this to go to rcgroups.com and read up on the following: betaflight, blheli, esc's, flight controllers, 2204 and 2204 motors, vtx's, receivers, taranis, fatshark goggles, headplay hd (i have these). That's all I can think of for now.
One final piece of advice, buy lots of props! They are very cheap and you will break lots of them as you are learning. Find a big open field and practice all of the basics over and over.
I have only been flying FPV since April, but if you want to take a look at my video you will see what a few months of practice will do. When you see the crash at the end, think of how much that would cost you on a phantom. It cost me about $1 - I broke 2 props.
You will not regret getting into this new hobby. PM me if you have any questions.
For some fun fpv videos, go check out Rotor Riot. Those guys have a blast!
MJ
That was not acro mode. Fire up that simulator again, and put it in acro mode. Its VERY different, there is no confusing the two and no inbetween (*). Either the control stick position corresponds to a quad attitude, or it controls rotation rate.
* before anyone says, horizon mode isnt inbetween, its both. its acro mode at the edges and attitude mode around the center. Which is as easy as flying in attitude, but lets you do flips.
Oh dear. Thats unusable on a FPV racing quad. You dont use an app, you dont use a phone, you dont use digital video. Its all analog; the camera, the VTX and the receiver. Quality kinda sucks (PAL/NTSC resolution), but you have no lag, and when the signal degrades, you just get noise or flickering, which you can fly through. Disconnects and reconnects happen instantaneously. You're going to need a different goggle (and receiver) for the racing quad; this one wont work, and even if it did, you wouldnt want it.
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Sure, its fine for a phantom, which has digital FPV, and which you fly in a way where the 300-500 + millisecond lag is acceptable, and even losing the video link for a few seconds isnt a real problem. FPV racing and proximity flying is an entirely different story. If I lose my video for a second, I probably crash, and it would be unflyable with the lag you have on lightbridge (never mind wifi).
This is also due to the difference between acro and attitude mode. In attitude mode, you position your sticks and you know how your phantom will orient itself accordingly. Even if that takes a few 100ms, that doesnt really matter a lot, you can anticipate that (*). In acro mode, it doesnt work that way, for instance, I need to know exactly when to center my sticks to stop the rotation. At full stick deflection, 300ms might be the difference between ending up level or upside down!
(*) except for yaw. During fast rotation, I still have trouble with the phantom ending up at the heading I intended, due to the video lag and gimbal yaw stabilization, I will overshoot my intended course more often than not. Yaw control on a phantom is somewhat comparable to roll/pitch control in acro mode: your stick doesnt determine a heading, only a rotation speed.
Digital low latency (<20ms) FPV solutions exist, but they are still very expensive, bulky and have limited range. Also the problem of poor reception leading to stuttering and delays isnt solved. And the bandwidth requirements are so high, you cant fly several such systems simultaneously in a race.
For now, analog FPV is the only realistic option for race or acro quads. I just wish someone made a higher resolution analog system. Our camera's often have far better than PAL resolution, many goggles can do better too. Its just that no one seems to make a video transmitter/receiver combo that does anything other than PAL or NTSC.
This is also due to the difference between acro and attitude mode. In attitude mode, you position your sticks and you know how your phantom will orient itself accordingly. Even if that takes a few 100ms, that doesnt really matter a lot, you can anticipate that (*). In acro mode, it doesnt work that way, for instance, I need to know exactly when to center my sticks to stop the rotation. At full stick deflection, 300ms might be the difference between ending up level or upside down!
(*) except for yaw. During fast rotation, I still have trouble with the phantom ending up at the heading I intended, due to the video lag and gimbal yaw stabilization, I will overshoot my intended course more often than not. Yaw control on a phantom is somewhat comparable to roll/pitch control in acro mode: your stick doesnt determine a heading, only a rotation speed.
Digital low latency (<20ms) FPV solutions exist, but they are still very expensive, bulky and have limited range. Also the problem of poor reception leading to stuttering and delays isnt solved. And the bandwidth requirements are so high, you cant fly several such systems simultaneously in a race.
For now, analog FPV is the only realistic option for race or acro quads. I just wish someone made a higher resolution analog system. Our camera's often have far better than PAL resolution, many goggles can do better too. Its just that no one seems to make a video transmitter/receiver combo that does anything other than PAL or NTSC.
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Congrats, thats not bad at all, I enjoyed watching that. Particularly some of those half flip/half loops are timed to perfection. Im guessing you practiced those more than your proximity flying
dirkclod
Premium Pilot
Being this isn't related to Pro/Adv I am moving it to OT .
You really want to talk racing join our sister site Drone Racing Forum
You really want to talk racing join our sister site Drone Racing Forum
I am a member there now but there doesn't seem to be much traffic yet. I'll keep trying.
dirkclod
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[...]
(*) it can produce awesome video's, but it will take many years of practice until you can do stuff like FGA:
posted this before, but its worth reposting
Thank you for the post and the video.
It's amazing. Star Wars and the chase in the woods popped in my head immediately!
Incredible.
I just assembled my first FPV drone after flying P3P for some time. I must say it's a killin.
At start it was difficult to find which route to choose, RTF Racer or DIY style - in the end I choosed DIY style and ordered all the parts separately.
My advice is to find good guide's to choose balanced componenets for the drone, ie.
Complete Mini Quad Parts List - FPV Quadcopter Component Choice - Oscar Liang
FPV Racing Drones: Recommended Parts, Kits and Components | 2017
It's steep learning curve but FPV drones are pure adrenalin.
At start it was difficult to find which route to choose, RTF Racer or DIY style - in the end I choosed DIY style and ordered all the parts separately.
My advice is to find good guide's to choose balanced componenets for the drone, ie.
Complete Mini Quad Parts List - FPV Quadcopter Component Choice - Oscar Liang
FPV Racing Drones: Recommended Parts, Kits and Components | 2017
It's steep learning curve but FPV drones are pure adrenalin.
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