Local County Park Unlawfully attempting to regulate drones

JSKCKNIT · Apr 12, 2019

xspwhite said:
It's going to get to the point where drones will get smaller and smaller. They will be everywhere and too small to regulate. People will just have to grow use to it.

Have you seen this lil guy?

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www.indiegogo.com

xspwhite · Apr 12, 2019

JSKCKNIT said:
Have you seen this lil guy?

Micro Drone 4.0 - Affordably Priced Under $200

Until now, only large and expensive drones captured the smooth, cinematic HD video you've expected. | Check out 'Micro Drone 4.0 - Affordably Priced Under $200' on Indiegogo.

www.indiegogo.com

That's cool.. I've been wanting to get a small drone.

Drestin Black · Jun 3, 2019

Posting in this thread because it’s related and folks reading here might be most interested and informative. The title of this post could very well be the same title I’d use if I started a new thread.

It appears that Tahquamenon Falls State Park is banning drones - isn’t that exactly what they can’t do under the state law referred to in this thread?

Drone usage outlawed at Tahquamenon Falls State Park

CHIPPEWA COUNTY, Mich. , (WPBN/WGTU) -- If you are planning on taking pictures with a drone at the Tahquamenon Falls, you may want to rethink those plans. The use of drones at the Tahquamenon Falls State Park is no longer allowed. According to the Michigan Department of Natural Resources...

upnorthlive.com

JSKCKNIT · Jun 3, 2019

Drestin Black said:
Posting in this thread because it’s related and folks reading here might be most interested and informative. The title of this post could very well be the same title I’d use if I started a new thread.

It appears that Tahquamenon Falls State Park is banning drones - isn’t that exactly what they can’t do under the state law referred to in this thread?

Drone usage outlawed at Tahquamenon Falls State Park

CHIPPEWA COUNTY, Mich. , (WPBN/WGTU) -- If you are planning on taking pictures with a drone at the Tahquamenon Falls, you may want to rethink those plans. The use of drones at the Tahquamenon Falls State Park is no longer allowed. According to the Michigan Department of Natural Resources...

upnorthlive.com

Beautiful place. It's a shame they're banning UAS there.

xspwhite · Jun 3, 2019

There are laws, but then there are rules.

Zzyzx · Jun 4, 2019

xspwhite said:
There are laws, but then there are rules.

Curious what you mean by that?

"Rules" or "policies" that are not actually enacted laws or statutes, are able to be enacted and enforced by a locality because they are granted the authority to do so by some higher-level statute. For example, most state statues grant localities (like a park commission) the authority to enact policies to govern issues like noise nuisance in parks. In the case of this local Michigan drone ban (as well as some others such as where I live in Oregon), the localities are specifically prohibited from enacting drone bans by state statute. They just can't make up whatever rules they want, although some seem to do just that.

Drestin Black · Jun 4, 2019

JSKCKNIT said:
Beautiful place. It's a shame they're banning UAS there.

I do not believe it is legal for them to do so

Drestin Black · Jun 4, 2019

xspwhite said:
There are laws, but then there are rules.

And laws trump rules. I don’t believe their rules can override state law; hence these rules are invalid.

JSKCKNIT · Jun 5, 2019

Unfortunately the law allows the Director to issue orders and rules as they see fit, even if they conflict with other laws. Until someone successfully challenges the director, his order remains in effect. The problem is it costs lots of money and lots of time and you're not guaranteed a positive outcome. They're using public safety as their reason, which makes challenges even more difficult.

Every incident within the parks should have been logged or generated a report. If I were challenging this, I'd start by requesting copies of activity reports involving incidents with drones. They will more than likely blow you off because it's time consuming for them to do so. So you will need a subpoena or other court order mandating they provide you the information. I would also file a complaint with the AG's office. Basically you have to disprove their assertion that drones pose a safety issue.

If you can gather several UAS operators willing to challenge this order, I think you'd be successful. The order contradicts itself. On one hand it says UAS operation is prohibited, but then it goes on to say (in the subsections) you just can't operate an UAS in conflict with the UAS Act, which is basically in an unsafe manner or in an unlawful way (peeping tom).

Good luck brother. I watched a few Youtube videos on the area and it's very beautiful, especially from above.

jacuzzibusguy · Jun 23, 2019

JSKCKNIT said:
Unfortunately the law allows the Director to issue orders and rules as they see fit, even if they conflict with other laws. Until someone successfully challenges the director, his order remains in effect. The problem is it costs lots of money and lots of time and you're not guaranteed a positive outcome. They're using public safety as their reason, which makes challenges even more difficult.

Every incident within the parks should have been logged or generated a report. If I were challenging this, I'd start by requesting copies of activity reports involving incidents with drones. They will more than likely blow you off because it's time consuming for them to do so. So you will need a subpoena or other court order mandating they provide you the information. I would also file a complaint with the AG's office. Basically you have to disprove their assertion that drones pose a safety issue.

If you can gather several UAS operators willing to challenge this order, I think you'd be successful. The order contradicts itself. On one hand it says UAS operation is prohibited, but then it goes on to say (in the subsections) you just can't operate an UAS in conflict with the UAS Act, which is basically in an unsafe manner or in an unlawful way (peeping tom).

Good luck brother. I watched a few Youtube videos on the area and it's very beautiful, especially from above.

You sound like a well educated person.

We have done exactly as you said and requested all the documents and data through a FReedom of Informstion Act request. It took longer than expected, but we did receive everything we asked for. Michigan takes foia pretty seriously, it costs a municipality thousands of dollars if they choose to not comply. I had one of the most well educated FOIA person in the state write our requests.

We’ve also formed an organization called MIchigan Coalition for Drone Operators. MCDO.

Soon we will be in court asking a judge to issue a declaratory action on this issue.

It’s already been a long process and if they appeal it will be an even longer process.

I do have the attention of giant uas companies who have a vested interest in making sure this test case goes the right way.

jacuzzibusguy · Oct 7, 2019

Update:

MCDO had their first hearing today. I want to say thank you to everyone who attended the hearing. There were about 10 of us, plus a reporter and our attorney.

The decision for our request for temporary injunction was put off until the next court date, tbd.

I am euphoric. The judge was well prepared and seems to have a good grasp on the matter. He asked tough questions. As usual, Dean made articulate logical arguments based on the law. Opposing council made emotional arguments and used half truths or even non-truths. Each of these points were countered by our very competent council except for the most egregious, like the concern over drones with flame throwers, that the judge wasn’t buying.

I am quite certain the judge will

Rule in our favor but in an effort to be as fair as possible gave the county more time to prepare.

I’ll include more details later after I’ve had a chance to decompress.

xspwhite · Oct 8, 2019

What is MCDO?

jacuzzibusguy · Oct 8, 2019

xspwhite said:
What is MCDO?

Michigan Coalition of Drone Operators

bsartist · Oct 8, 2019

xspwhite said:
What is MCDO?

An organization he formed to deal with this issue.

jacuzzibusguy · Oct 16, 2019

jacuzzibusguy · Oct 16, 2019

Drestin Black said:
Posting in this thread because it’s related and folks reading here might be most interested and informative. The title of this post could very well be the same title I’d use if I started a new thread.

It appears that Tahquamenon Falls State Park is banning drones - isn’t that exactly what they can’t do under the state law referred to in this thread?

Drone usage outlawed at Tahquamenon Falls State Park

CHIPPEWA COUNTY, Mich. , (WPBN/WGTU) -- If you are planning on taking pictures with a drone at the Tahquamenon Falls, you may want to rethink those plans. The use of drones at the Tahquamenon Falls State Park is no longer allowed. According to the Michigan Department of Natural Resources...

upnorthlive.com

this is at least slightly off topic. While not as straightforward as the case in genesee county, I don’t believe the dnr rule can be enforced, especially for part 107 pilots.

bsartist · Oct 16, 2019

jacuzzibusguy said:
View attachment 115052

What’s the story behind this picture?

jacuzzibusguy · Oct 16, 2019

bsartist said:
What’s the story behind this picture?

I thought the entire story was in the Beginning of this thread, but realize this thread was started in the middle of the story.

synopsis:

park ranger arrested a drone pilot (me) confiscated drone, Ipad, controller, and just to be a jerk my personal cell phone And issued a citation for a 90 day misdemeanor.

there were two things in my favor: the park didn’t have any rules regarding drones and The State has a strong preemption law which forbids local governments from enacting or enforcing any rules regarding the operation or possession of unmanned aircraft.

charges were dropped, eventually got my stuff back.

park creates new ordinance that does apply to drones, one that is in direct conflict with state law.

drone pilots unite and form a non profit called MIchigan Coalition of Drone operators (MCDO) and we forced the county to stand in front of a judge and explain their actions.
The next hearing is scheduled for nov 8.

Drestin Black · Oct 16, 2019

Another park to add to the list: Thomas G Spencer Park in Rochester, MI. Tried to fly my drone and ranger came out and said I couldn't. I tried to point out that there are no posted rules regarding drones and that they are legal to fly anyway. And he simply said he'd call the police for me to argue with. I was doing a personal day of hobby flying and not work so it wasn't worth the encounter. Here is the site for the park, including a list of restrictions:

Rochester Hills, MI - Official Website - Spencer Park

Spencer Park

www.rochesterhills.org

So I went and parked in a parking lot outside the park and a little distance away and flew in from there.

Recoveryone · Oct 18, 2019

Not sure if this is part of the trade war backlash or if people are really in fear of drones, but here is another propose law to take away authority from the FAA and give it to local agency's to regulate airspace on drones.