"New" refurb, in beginner mode, flyaway and crash

Gjeret · Feb 15, 2016

Here are logs:
Box | Simple Online Collaboration: Online File Storage, FTP Replacement, Team Workspaces

(odd note, the USB Drive would not show up on my windows 7 laptop, my mac, my windows 8 PC... but connected just fine on my windows 10 Desktop, it would connect and show up as an Unknown USB Device, slow as hell downloading.. USB 1.1?)

I uploaded 2 sets, we have two dated on the 7th at 1:54 (ipad replay points to 1:57) and a bunch (1 gig compressed worth) at 3:15 and 3:25... after the UAV crashed.

Named as Feb 7th 157ish.zip and Feb 7th 3ish flight.zip

Thanks for helping me determine if this is UAV or User error, User can be trained, but UAV needs to be repaired if it is to be trusted. (yes giving a UAV to a novice is a risk, and I am aware of that, but in life and business.... sometimes you need to take risks) If nothing else, I have learned very much!

-Gj-

Tony Cowan · Feb 15, 2016

Solar Deity said:
Later Go App versions removed the option. Not sure which version it started with.

SD

It is still there. In the camera settings.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

buford · Feb 15, 2016

Gjeret said:
Here are logs:
Box | Simple Online Collaboration: Online File Storage, FTP Replacement, Team Workspaces

(odd note, the USB Drive would not show up on my windows 7 laptop, my mac, my windows 8 PC... but connected just fine on my windows 10 Desktop, it would connect and show up as an Unknown USB Device, slow as hell downloading.. USB 1.1?)

I uploaded 2 sets, we have two dated on the 7th at 1:54 (ipad replay points to 1:57) and a bunch (1 gig compressed worth) at 3:15 and 3:25... after the UAV crashed.

Named as Feb 7th 157ish.zip and Feb 7th 3ish flight.zip

Thanks for helping me determine if this is UAV or User error, User can be trained, but UAV needs to be repaired if it is to be trusted. (yes giving a UAV to a novice is a risk, and I am aware of that, but in life and business.... sometimes you need to take risks) If nothing else, I have learned very much!

-Gj-

Loaning it to him the way you did, given his experience, I'd say there was no risk involved. It was 100% that something was gonna happen. I know businesses take risks, I had one for 30 yrs. But I took intelligent risks that I had mulled over in my mind. You might want to wake up and smell the insulation burning off your motor wires.

Solar Deity · Feb 15, 2016

buford said:
Loaning it to him the way you did, given his experience, I'd say there was no risk involved. It was 100% that something was gonna happen. I know businesses take risks, I had one for 30 yrs. But I took intelligent risks that I had mulled over in my mind. You might want to wake up and smell the insulation burning off your motor wires.

To some people, $500 is a lot of money. To others, it's a drop in the bucket. BFD he had an accident with a refurbished Phantom Advanced. He knew the risks. Doesn't seem too concerned about the $$$$. He only wanted to know why, and from his flight review, there was a problem with the GPS hold. You were a risk when you first tried to fly your P3. Was there a 100% risk something was going to happen?

Thanks for the business lesson.

SD

buford · Feb 15, 2016

Solar Deity said:
To some people, $500 is a lot of money. To others, it's a drop in the bucket. BFD he had an accident with a refurbished Phantom Advanced. He knew the risks. Doesn't seem to concerned about the $$$$. He only wanted to know why, and from his flight review, there was a problem with the GPS hold. You were a risk when you first tried to fly your P3. Was there a 100% risk something was going to happen?

Thanks for the business lesson.

SD

Your welcome

With The Birds · Feb 15, 2016

Tony Cowan said:
It is still there. In the camera settings.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

Wrong SD card.

With The Birds · Feb 15, 2016

Why are we bashing the pilot? He is new to this, like everyone at the start.

The question here is if its a warranty job. The OP opened with the question if he should be going to the retailer or DJI for repair replacement.

Ron K · Feb 17, 2016

Is there a defect in the GPS/ATTI switch? did he really flip that switch back and forth that many times?

BudWalker · Feb 18, 2016

Gjeret said:
Here are logs:
Box | Simple Online Collaboration: Online File Storage, FTP Replacement, Team Workspaces

(odd note, the USB Drive would not show up on my windows 7 laptop, my mac, my windows 8 PC... but connected just fine on my windows 10 Desktop, it would connect and show up as an Unknown USB Device, slow as hell downloading.. USB 1.1?)

I uploaded 2 sets, we have two dated on the 7th at 1:54 (ipad replay points to 1:57) and a bunch (1 gig compressed worth) at 3:15 and 3:25... after the UAV crashed.

Named as Feb 7th 157ish.zip and Feb 7th 3ish flight.zip

Thanks for helping me determine if this is UAV or User error, User can be trained, but UAV needs to be repaired if it is to be trusted. (yes giving a UAV to a novice is a risk, and I am aware of that, but in life and business.... sometimes you need to take risks) If nothing else, I have learned very much!

-Gj-

I looked at this some. The incident flight was FLY019.DAT. The "flight" starts at -158 with magMod at 3000 instead of the normal "around 1500".

During this interval the pilot attempts several motorStarts
-99.022 : 37352 : 2913 [Ctrl<7>] REQ_APP_WM610 ENGINE_START ctrl_engine_start
-99.002 : 37364 : 2914 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.982 : 37376 : 2915 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.962 : 37388 : 2916 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.942 : 37400 : 2917 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.922 : 37412 : 2918 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.902 : 37424 : 2919 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.882 : 37436 : 2920 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.862 : 37448 : 2921 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.842 : 37460 : 2922 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
-98.822 : 37472 : 2923 [M.Start]ACT.Takeoff FAIL, Compass error!
At - 76 the magMod changes to a normal value. My theory is that the P3 had been sitting on some ferrous material and was then moved. The abrupt change in magMod causes a type 7 compassError which normally occurs with an abrupt change.

At about time 0.0 the motors are started and launch occurs. At roughly 258 there is a large acceleration event

and the P3 has a constant altitude after that and there are numerous smaller acceleration events until 434. At 434 there is a an ESC event that I haven't quite figured out. It seems clear that the flight ended at 258 with an impact and then thrashed around until 434 .At 558 the P3 has lost contact with the R/C and starts an auto landing at 582. The motors are then shut off at 592.

During the flight (from 258 to 434) the P3 experienced large winds taking it away from the Home Point. Before @Luap went on vacation to a warm, sunny place with nice beaches he provided a Dashware video of the flight. I'll paraphrase his comments. At roughly 119 a RTH was initiated
119.718 : 168596 : 13850 [Ctrl<10>] REQ_RC_GO_HOME NAVI_GO_HOME ctrl_navi_go_home
129.938 : 174728 : 14361 CTRL reset all by rc Go-Home Exit
The P3 turned towards home and forward pitch and right roll are commanded but it piches back and rolls left. The horizontal speed reaches 60 KmH at this point. This seems to indicate a heavy crosswind. During the whole flight P3 drifts away, suggesting high winds too.

There's more to say about the compass errors in this flight but I'm going to defer addressing for the moment. A new version of DatCon should be ready in a couple of days that will have a compassError field mentioned above.

With The Birds · Feb 18, 2016

So gps lock couldnt be obtained because of the compass error?

BudWalker · Feb 19, 2016

With The Birds said:
So gps lock couldnt be obtained because of the compass error?

Not sure I understand your question.
The term gpsLock is being used in DatCon to refer to that point in time where the P3 starts reporting latitude-longitude coordinates. This is significant because parts of the Dashware profile won't work if these coordinates are 0. This flight had gpsLock at about time -100.

Perhaps you are referring to GPS-ATTI mode vs ATTI mode. My understanding was that a "compass error" will cause the P3 to switch to ATTI from GPS-ATTI. It seems to be more complicated than that though. I've recently looked at a lot of flights (about 800) and the most I can say is that usually, but not always, a compass error is coincident with a switch from GPS-ATTI mode to ATTI mode.I'm still trying to figure this out an am hoping to have more to say about it after the releasing the next version of DatCon. That version will have some compass error fields not in the current version. This plot from the this flight was made with the next version

The brown trace is flight mode with 2 being GPS_ATTI and 1 being ATTI. The blue trace is the compass error with values 7, 6, and 5). Usually a type 5 compass error occurs just before a switch to ATTI mode suggesting a causal relationship. But you can see that isn't always the case with this flight.

spectre · Feb 20, 2016

buford said:
Maybe it's just me, but I cant even imagine a scenario where I would loan my phantom to ANYONE. They are not hard to fly, but all the electronics, the app, the fact that the operator can get it in to trouble in any number of ways, doesn't not seem like a piece of equipment you would loan out willy nilly to anyone.....IMO.

definitely common sense... kinda odd that it took that long for someone to point that out

With The Birds · Feb 20, 2016

spectre said:
definitely common sense... kinda odd that it took that long for someone to point that out

I thought the OP had let an employee take the phantom home to practice in anticipation of FAA relaxing laws and expectation the phantom would be ultimately flown by the employee to generate earnings for the business.

buford · Feb 20, 2016

With The Birds said:
I thought the OP had let an employee take the phantom home to practice in anticipation of FAA relaxing laws and expectation the phantom would be ultimately flown by the employee to generate earnings for the business.

That's the story. But, Anyone who is waiting on the government to relax anything pertaining to laws, and anyone who loans this kind of equipment to an inexperienced person, to fly without supervision, and anyone who expects dji to be responsible for a situation that should be on the owners tab, is in my opinion, not a person that is smart, if ya know what I mean. I hesitate to voice my sentiments in detail, because I know from personal experience it's not impossible to get kicked off this site for speaking your mind.

Gjeret · Feb 20, 2016

Hey, it's always a good idea in business to wait for everyone else to get prepped first! When regulation, especially for a "fun" business that everyone and their brother will want to get into, changes.. it is absolutely brilliant to be the last one out of the gate starting training, marketing, billable jobs, and everything else after the floodgates open, yep, brilliant.

As for warranty work, this is a factory refurbished unit, meaning SOMETHING was wrong with it at one point in time, if it was pilot error, great, learn and move on. If it was hardware error, I need that fixed.

That being said, I really do appreciate all the constructive criticism and help I have received.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

kirk2579 · Feb 20, 2016

With The Birds said:
I thought the OP had let an employee take the phantom home to practice in anticipation of FAA relaxing laws and expectation the phantom would be ultimately flown by the employee to generate earnings for the business.

I too read that he was "loaning" to an employee to learn for work.
maybe the term loan was wrong to use.
but it is common for employers to supply "tools" and equipment to people to use for work.

Not an Issue!

buford · Feb 20, 2016

kirk2579 said:
I too read that he was "loaning" to an employee to learn for work.
maybe the term loan was wrong to use.
but it is common for employers to supply "tools" and equipment to people to use for work.

Not an Issue!

Not for me. I didn't loan it to him..

rixlumb · Feb 23, 2016

buford said:
Actually, I think we are give this pilot too much credit. This thread started off asking what could have happened, and what the odds say happened is the pilot was at fault. Nothing against the pilot, but c'mon, what does your common sense tell you? The guy loaned his drone to a newbie, and the drone miraculously went haywire? Not.