Horizon v-3 split power mod

Phantom751874 · Mar 21, 2016

Guys I think we'll need to move on from the Horizon battery mod. I'm going to still do more testing though as my batteries have not been broken in. I do feel as though we have posted many questions for Will and most were not answered. I'm not sure why.

I would like for us to come to some kind of conclusion about this mod though. In a controlled environment (no wind hover) I will go from 100% to 10% with the mod and whatever method I can figure for taping the external batteries to the P3. Again, the wiring on my v3 mod is about an inch short for me to use the white battery boards they provided.

Also, on a side note we have at least one other forum member who has seen sub-optimal flight time based on a split battery mod. It wasn't from Horizon but just something to think about. I think companies that offer battery mods in general should advertise flight times under controlled conditions, no wind and in a hover, just like DJi does. It's the only way to compare apples to apples.

dirtybum · Mar 21, 2016

I think the company made it pretty clear what we can do with it!! Send it back if its not working. I have to think by Will of Horizon's comments that he "will no longer contribute to this thread" that he's fed up with the questioning about why, what, and how do we get this v-3 mod to work. So i guess if you want to order it good luck, but if we had to come to a conclusion on this subject my input would clearly be that its not worth the time and effort. (Oh and thank goodness i didnt order the v-3 from uk ! I almost did before it came to the midwest and that was bout $489 usd )

Silverwingflinx · Mar 21, 2016

dirtybum said:
I think the company made it pretty clear what we can do with it!! Send it back if its not working. I have to think by Will of Horizon's comments that he "will no longer contribute to this thread" that he's fed up with the questioning about why, what, and how do we get this v-3 mod to work. So i guess if you want to order it good luck, but if we had to come to a conclusion on this subject my input would clearly be that its not worth the time and effort. (Oh and thank goodness i didnt order the v-3 from uk ! I almost did before it came to the midwest and that was bout $489 usd )

Thanks to all who have tried the v3 mod.i almost went for it but our Canadian dollar is crap paying 1.40 to 1us and British pound 2.00 Canadian nope.i will stay with the battery mod I have done.i have been following this thread sorry to here you guys have had such bad results.as for me I still don't think I will buy the new p4 and talk battery mod.only thing I do like is it's fast,it's better built,and like the fact it does not have the tilted horizon.going to stay with my P3A.i have spent thousands $$$$$$.

Phantom751874 · Mar 22, 2016

Incoming test results................

Ed209 · Mar 22, 2016

Phantom751874 said:
Incoming test results................

Same here...

Phantom751874 · Mar 22, 2016

Test #4
Horizon v3 Power Mod - Garage Hover 100% - 10%

External batteries merely taped to the landing gear. It doesn't get any lighter than this kind of mount. The batteries are mounted in the same orientation that you would when using the plastic Horizon provided battery mounts.

Starting voltages and battery % as report by the DJi GO App.

Snippet of flight video. Nice and steady ~3ft Off the ground only adjusting as needed. No Wind. Lightest battery mount known.

Ending battery voltages measured separately 25 minutes after flight.
Externals: 15.2 Total, Cells 3.78/3.79/3.81/3.77
P3 Main: 14.9 Total, Cells 3.71/3.70/3.74/3.71

Flight Time: 24:09 (100% to 10% Batteries Mounted)
Flight Time: 23:08 (100% to 50% Batteries Laying on the Floor)

Starting DJi flight record map. Then at 50% then at 10%

What have we learned?

If I can't get 30 Minutes in the Garage With No Wind and hovering and taping the batteries directly to the landing gear and going from 100% to 10% battery then the "Horizon v3 Power Mod 30+ Minute Flight Time Myth" is busted.

This can't be argued with. 30+ flight minutes is NOT going to happen with this mod. The split DJi P3 batteries plus wrapping plus cables etc. is just too heavy to get more much more than 24 minutes of flight.

There IS something to be gained here just not 30+ minutes of flight time. My longest distance flight to date took 17:01 and I went from 100% to 10% on a stock P3 battery. The gain for me with this Horizon v3 Power Mod is +7:08 but this is competing 17:01 of actual distance flight time to a 24:09 hover in the garage. I would not be surprised to see actual flight time reduce this mod down to 20-21 total minutes or +3-4 minutes (no taco bueno man).

This is only maybe 2 minutes better than my testing with 2x Turnigy Nano-Tech 4S 1800's and 2200's mounted on those carbon fiber battery boards.

Ed209 · Mar 22, 2016

Thank you for testing.

I've got more hard data on the way...

Kevin M · Mar 22, 2016

Phantom751874 said:
Test #4
Horizon v3 Power Mod - Garage Hover 100% - 10%

External batteries merely taped to the landing gear. It doesn't get any lighter than this kind of mount. The batteries are mounted in the same orientation that you would when using the plastic Horizon provided battery mounts.

Starting voltages and battery % as report by the DJi GO App.

Snippet of flight video. Nice and steady ~3ft Off the ground only adjusting as needed. No Wind. Lightest battery mount known.

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Ending battery voltages measured separately 25 minutes after flight.
Externals: 15.2 Total, Cells 3.78/3.79/3.81/3.77
P3 Main: 14.9 Total, Cells 3.71/3.70/3.74/3.71

Flight Time: 24:09 (100% to 10% Batteries Mounted)
Flight Time: 23:08 (100% to 50% Batteries Laying on the Floor)

Starting DJi flight record map. Then at 50% then at 10%

What have we learned?

If I can't get 30 Minutes in the Garage With No Wind and hovering and taping the batteries directly to the landing gear and going from 100% to 10% battery then the "Horizon v3 Power Mod 30+ Minute Flight Time Myth" is busted.

This can't be argued with. 30+ flight minutes is NOT going to happen with this mod. The split DJi P3 batteries plus wrapping plus cables etc. is just too heavy to get more much more than 24 minutes of flight.

There IS something to be gained here just not 30+ minutes of flight time. My longest distance flight to date took 17:01 and I went from 100% to 10% on a stock P3 battery. The gain for me with this Horizon v3 Power Mod is +7:08.

This is only maybe 2 minutes better than my testing with 2x Turnigy Nano-Tech 4S 1800's and 2200's mounted on those carbon fiber battery boards.

Hi Phantom,
Great test done on this mod.
Just wanted to post my findings on best batteries I have
used. I bought all the batteries listed on this post and my
best time to date is the Thunder Power 2100 Mah prolite
power series 25c ..weight is 197g each.
landing at 50% with 15:37 and landing at 10% with 27:41
also that's with the bird side amp on the bird, and many led lights
on board....
Flying at night with very calm winds 3-5 mph is the KEY!

Kevin
Kevin

BeauS · Mar 22, 2016

Phantom751874 said:
Incoming test results................

Hey Phantom751874- After the main battery shuts off when charging with the externals, are we to plug the main bettery back into the charger by itself to top it off? Thanks!

Ed209 · Mar 22, 2016

ALL TESTS PERFORMED OUTDOORS WITH NORMAL FLYING (MINIMAL HOVERING)
(No modifications made to the battery bracket)
I charged the Horizon externals using a Sky RC D100 at 4.4A
Aircraft: P3A W322A (new motors, DJI CF Props)
Firmware: 1.1.9+
R/C GL300A w/ FPVLR v2
R/C Firmware: 1.5.70
DJI Go Version: 2.4.3 (iOS)
iPad Air 2: iOS v9.2.1

Horizon v3 mod (brand new batteries)
Total aircraft weight: 1692.6g
Time: 7:35PM
Temp: 57
Wind: 9mph S
Beginning voltages

Main DJI bat
4.33 4.33 4.33 4.34
Split bat
4.33 4.34 4.34 4.35

Ending voltages

Main DJI bat
3.81 3.81 3.82 3.81
Split bat
3.90 3.92 3.92 3.92

Time to 50%: 14:52

NOTE: The Horizon 2x2S took 1409mAh when recharging to get back to 4.35v per cell.

Homemade split mod (2x2S with XT60s - no balance to DJI battery)
Total aircraft weight: 1702.6g
Time: 8:40PM
Temp: 52
Wind: 12mph S

Beginning voltages

Main DJI bat (32 charge cycles)
4.27 4.27 4.27 4.27
Split bat 2S #1 (15 charge cycles)
4.34 4.35
Split bat 2S #2 (15 charge cycles)
4.33 4.34

Ending voltages

Main DJI bat
3.82 3.82 3.82 3.82
Split bat 2S #1
3.87 3.87
Split bat 2S #2
3.88 3.88

Time to 50%: 15:22

Hyperion G6 G6 2400s (connected to the Horizon modded DJI main bat)
Total aircraft weight: 1749.4g
Time: 10:00PM
Temp: 49
Wind: 11mph S

Beginning voltages

Main DJI bat (Horizon modded)
4.34 4.33 4.34 4.34
Hyperion G6 2400 #1
4.34 4.35 4.34 4.34
Hyperion G6 2400 #2
4.34 4.34 4.34 4.33

Ending voltages

Main DJI bat
3.84 3.84 3.84 3.84
Hyperion G6 2400 #1
3.80 3.79 3.78 3.80
Hyperion G6 2400 #2
3.80 3.80 3.79 3.80

Time to 50%: 18:30
Side Note: I flew for 9:22 before the smart RTH timer went below 25:00mins

What have I learned? The claims that WEIGHT is the major factor here is BS when you compare the differences in weight for my tests. I'm sure all other testers are around the same weight. The "Miss Piggy Heavyweight" Hyperion config outweighs the Horizon rig by 56.8g yet outperforms the Horizon mod substantially by 3min38s to 50% (taking note it is only 320mAh more capacity). There is something going on with the discharge rate in a 2x2S configuration. Both the Horizon and my own split mod have the largest deviations compared to the main DJI battery. When running Hyperion 2x4S in parallel, the cells discharge at the same rate. I'm not sure if this .10v deviation between the main and 2x2S is hint that something is not right. I feel like Will was wasting our time telling us to reduce weight and get the batteries oriented differently for aerodynamics. None of the marginal design improvements that he said would have such a drastic effect on performance. Where are all the UK buyers at who are getting the results that were advertised? We only have 2 people claiming to get these results here.

Now that I have some real data to go by, I'm going to contact a SME in the battery lab at my job and see if he can shed some light on this.

Phantom751874 · Mar 22, 2016

BeauS said:
Hey Phantom751874- After the main battery shuts off when charging with the externals, are we to plug the main bettery back into the charger by itself to top it off? Thanks!

Sometimes even when charging just the main P3 battery the smartcap will shutdown charging a little early. So I unplug the charging connector turn the battery on (same as you do when it's in the P3 but not in the P3). Then while the battery is on (green led's are solid) plug the charger back in. Sometime it'll top the battery off and you'll see it charge a little maybe for 1 minute or 2 before stopping again. This deal works on the Controller as well but for it you don't need to unplug the charging cable. Just turn the controller on and it'll do the same except when it's done it'll beep really loudly.

So, I topped off the externals connected to the main P3 battery the same way. You always want to make sure connect and disconnect the externals before turning off your main P3 battery. So to top off, disconnect the externals. Disconnect the main P3 battery from the charger. Turn the main P3 battery on connect it to the P3 charger. Give it a few seconds then plug in your external batteries to the P3 main battery while it's charging (balance connector and XT60 connector). Again, sometimes it'll charge a little more a minute or two and sometimes it doesn't or shuts off right away.

Phantom751874 · Mar 23, 2016

Ed209 said:
ALL TESTS PERFORMED OUTDOORS WITH NORMAL FLYING (MINIMAL HOVERING)
(No modifications made to the battery bracket)
I charged the Horizon externals using a Sky RC D100 at 4.4A
Aircraft: P3A W322A (new motors)
Firmware: 1.1.9+
R/C GL300A w/ FPVLR v2
R/C Firmware: 1.5.70
DJI Go Version: 2.4.3 (iOS)
iPad Air 2: iOS v9.2.1

Horizon v3 mod (brand new batteries)
Total aircraft weight: 1692.6g
Time: 7:35PM
Temp: 57
Wind: 9mph S
Beginning voltages

Main DJI bat
4.33 4.33 4.33 4.34
Split bat
4.33 4.34 4.34 4.35

Ending voltages

Main DJI bat
3.81 3.81 3.82 3.81
Split bat
3.90 3.92 3.92 3.92

Time to 50%: 14:52

NOTE: The Horizon 2x2S took 1409mAh when recharging to get back to 4.35v per cell.

Homemade split mod (2x2S with XT60s - no balance to DJI battery)
Total aircraft weight: 1702.6g
Time: 8:40PM
Temp: 52
Wind: 12mph S

Beginning voltages

Main DJI bat (32 charge cycles)
4.27 4.27 4.27 4.27
Split bat 2S #1 (15 charge cycles)
4.34 4.35
Split bat 2S #2 (15 charge cycles)
4.33 4.34

Ending voltages

Main DJI bat
3.82 3.82 3.82 3.82
Split bat 2S #1
3.87 3.87
Split bat 2S #2
3.88 3.88

Time to 50%: 15:22

Hyperion G6 G6 2400s (connected to the Horizon modded DJI main bat)
Total aircraft weight: 1749.4g
Time: 10:00PM
Temp: 49
Wind: 11mph S

Beginning voltages

Main DJI bat (Horizon modded)
4.34 4.33 4.34 4.34
Hyperion G6 2400 #1
4.34 4.35 4.34 4.34
Hyperion G6 2400 #2
4.34 4.34 4.34 4.33

Ending voltages

Main DJI bat
3.84 3.84 3.84 3.84
Hyperion G6 2400 #1
3.80 3.79 3.78 3.80
Hyperion G6 2400 #2
3.80 3.80 3.79 3.80

Time to 50%: 18:30
Side Note: I flew for 9:22 before the smart RTH timer went below 25:00mins

What have I learned? The claims that WEIGHT is the major factor here is BS when you compare the differences in weight for my tests. I'm sure all other testers are around the same weight. The "Miss Piggy Heavyweight" Hyperion config outweighs the Horizon rig by 56.8g yet outperforms the Horizon mod substantially by 3min38s to 50% (taking note it is only 320mAh more capacity). There is something going on with the discharge rate in a 2x2S configuration. Both the Horizon and my own split mod have the largest deviations compared to the main DJI battery. When running Hyperion 2x4S in parallel, the cells discharge at the same rate. I'm not sure if this .10v deviation between the main and 2x2S is hint that something is not right. I feel like Will was wasting our time telling us to reduce weight and get the batteries oriented differently for aerodynamics. None of the marginal design improvements that he said would have such a drastic effect on performance. Where are all the UK buyers at who are getting the results that were advertised? We only have 2 people claiming to get these results here.

Now that I have some real data to go by, I'm going to contact a SME in the battery lab at my job and see if he can shed some light on this.

Vewy Vewy interesting Ed. Hmm.

There might be sumting to that discharge rate and what we are seeing with the P3 main batteries discharging faster than the externals. We believe the DJi GO App may only be reporting data from the main P3 battery. This may mean we are seeing in my case 10% battery remaining when in fact due to the ~.08 to .10 voltage differences per cell we may be leaving up to a total of .40 volts on the table (.10 per cell). It matters not because at 10% you're gonna fight the P3 as it tries to auto land. The most efficient way to cable these things up may be to ensure the externals discharge at an even rate as the main P3 battery as you have seen with your 2x 4S externals. This way we aren't limited to what the GO App thinks is left in the tank.

This would not however explain the poor performance that I saw when I used the 2x 4S 1800's and 2200's with the battery boards? I need to check those Nano-Tech weights again to see how much more different they were to your G6's. I didn't think they were too much heavier though.

BeauS · Mar 23, 2016

Phantom751874 said:
Sometimes even when charging just the main P3 battery the smartcap will shutdown charging a little early. So I unplug the charging connector turn the battery on (same as you do when it's in the P3 but not in the P3). Then while the battery is on (green led's are solid) plug the charger back in. Sometime it'll top the battery off and you'll see it charge a little maybe for 1 minute or 2 before stopping again. This deal works on the Controller as well but for it you don't need to unplug the charging cable. Just turn the controller on and it'll do the same except when it's don't it'll beep really loudly.

So, I topped off the externals connected to the main P3 battery the same way. You always want to make sure connect and disconnect the externals before turning off your main P3 battery. So to top off, disconnect the externals. Disconnect the main P3 battery from the charger. Turn the main P3 battery on connect it to the P3 charger. Give it a few seconds then plug in your external batteries to the P3 main battery while it's charging (balance connector and XT60 connector). Again, sometimes it'll charge a little more a minute or two and sometimes it doesn't or shuts off right away.

Thanks, did not know about this, I'll try that out!

dirtybum · Mar 23, 2016

Thankyou to :
Ed209
Phantom751874
Fredz
& Kevin M
For all your effort,time,tests&input
This post would not have been what it is w/ out you!

Ed209 · Mar 23, 2016

dirtybum said:
Thankyou to :
Ed209
Phantom751874
Fredz
& Kevin M
For all your effort,time,tests&input
This post would not have been what it is w/ out you!

Thanks Dirtybum. I have a weakness for trying to resolve problems and fix things. Sometimes it keeps me up way too late

Phantom751874 · Mar 23, 2016

Ed209 said:
Thanks Dirtybum. I have a weakness for trying to resolve problems and fix things. Sometimes it keeps me up way too late

Ed, where did buy your Hyperion 4S 2400's from? Was it a US reseller?

Ed209 · Mar 23, 2016

Phantom751874 said:
Ed, where did buy your Hyperion 4S 2400's from? Was it a US reseller?

I got one set from rc dude hobbies and another from empire hobby. All US dealers.

Phantom751874 · Mar 23, 2016

Ed209 said:
I got one set from rc dude hobbies and another from empire hobby. All US dealers.

Danka

Ed209 · Mar 23, 2016

I think my next round of testing will be to run these batteries down to 10% and measure voltages of each cell. Also, measuring the mAh put back in after recharging.