Why is 1080p better than 4k????

[aaronrivera]

Shooting in 1080p 24fps is much cleaner n less noisy than 4k. 4k may have more detail but its so noisy or maybe too much data to be written in the card but cant be consistent.
Shot some vids at night and boy i was so disapointed wid 4k. 1080 on the other hand im happy about shooting at low light. Coming from a p3p to p4. Really disapointed with the camera. Im using sandisk extreme pro on a 55 inch 4k tv.
I never use 3d noise reduction also as it adds an effect wen u yaw.
My 4k vids also stutters from time to time maybe cozof a high shutter speed in the bright day light?
Let me know wt u guys think.

 

[Ibmftw]

Wouldn't make no sense, are you sure you are using the same settings when you shoot in 4k, perhaps your playback settings on your TV when it recognises 4k content are slightly off. 4K would not produce more noise, it would produce at worst the same, you are maybe noticing a softening effect of less detail that makes the 1080 look less grainy and are confusing that as more noise on the 4k?

 

[jwt873]

I've got a 50 inch Samsung 4K TV. I record 3840 x 2160 at 30 frames and the video absolutely stunning to watch on the big screen. (I use the card that came with the drone).

I've never had a problem with noise at any resolution. What ISO have you been recording at? If possible, use 100. the higher you go, the more noise you get.

 

[aaronrivera]

Ur right about softening. But how come at night or low light situations, 4k seems to be noisier and grainier and uglier than 1080p 24fps. Ive tested all settings for a year started with my p3p. I thought getting the best card would fix everything about the video quality. I always shoot at 100 iso at day but at night it goes all the way to 3200, but again 1080p is much nicer. Also 1080 data rate is only 24mbps. Maybe less strain on the machine? Wen shooting 4k it goes to its max which is 60mbps. Jwt, can u compare ur night vids? Shoot in 4k 3200iso then 1080 3200. Let me know which one is watchable. Make sure u get some darkness in the video so u can really see the noise. Thanks!

 

[aaronrivera]

Also im seeing the noise on the ipad fpv. Not just on my tv. Really weird. But i feel like im getting closer in giving up on all these settings n just shoot auto all the time

 

[Ibmftw]

What fps does the 4k shoot in at night, you can't have the best of both worlds you have to lower your fps to something around 24fps, this will allow you to shoot at a max ISO 400 and a lowish shutter speed, keep that 3dr crap, or what ever they call it, off.

 

[aaronrivera]

I shoot at 24fps. I use pal. Otherwise lights flicker. Im in hk. I did comparison of all the video resolution. Found the best result to be 1080p24. Which had less noise in the blacks. Almost none. 4k was rilly bad unless i use a really low iso. I just dnt understand why. I will take pictures of my tv screen. But on ur end can u try it out all the video resolutions n tell me which is usable for u

 

[With The Birds]

Shouldnt be any mystery here. The sensor can do 4k native (four times 1080). At 1080 the full sensor area is still illuminated so 1080 is interpolatimg pixels read from the sensor before any additional processing. Noise is reduced by averaging.

 

[atariman]

It's not better


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[sergekouper]

Low frame rate (24fps)+ Hi shutter speed + yawing + reading from the card = Stuttering . Safe solution: film at 30fps set the Shutter speed at 1/60 (double the fps) avoid yaws when possible. read file from an SSD. You should get a smooth playback (If your TV processor can cope with full blast 4K)

 

[Jussaguy]

Shooting in 1080p 24fps is much cleaner n less noisy than 4k. 4k may have more detail but its so noisy or maybe too much data to be written in the card but cant be consistent.
Shot some vids at night and boy i was so disapointed wid 4k. 1080 on the other hand im happy about shooting at low light. Coming from a p3p to p4. Really disapointed with the camera. Im using sandisk extreme pro on a 55 inch 4k tv.
I never use 3d noise reduction also as it adds an effect wen u yaw.
My 4k vids also stutters from time to time maybe cozof a high shutter speed in the bright day light?
Let me know wt u guys think.

Without reading a single word of this thread, I'm sorry but you've got it wrong.

First, its basically the same camera as the P3X, they made VERY minor physical tweaks but the image is way better than the P3P and it shoots naturally a little less sharp to get rid of aliasing caused by 4k and UHD (remember they are different formats), and 4K can have as much detail or not as you like. Granted, we don't have Sony A6 options but you can shoot in 4K at 24 or 25 which should not be TOO sharp and at UHD 30fps, you're gonna be super sharp. Go to the custom settings and bring down the sharpness to what you like.

We can always do whatever we want in post but for time's sake, ALWAYS get it right in production. So shoot with a little less sharpness if it's too sharp and as long as you are not getting artifacts (which you will because it goes along with the territory of all prosumer drones because they deliver ACC h264 hardware encoding) and when there is heavy movement on that, you will have some artifacts. I have two P4s and one is much better than the other but both are better than the P3 in every way and I have P3s. I also have pro cams as well.

But I use the Phantoms for fun. They are pure joy with the exception of when I had to go on a hunt for my second one. Was so frustrated I almost gave up and was ready to walk away from aerial photography as just a hobby which is what it is when I break out the Phantom. I don't own a UAS that I would rather fly than my P4. I am still waiting for my H (already bought 2 batteries) but for now, and it doesn't sound like the H will overtake it, the P4 IS, objectively I think, better than the P3X so if you can't figure out your problems, you might want to consider you have a bad one. It certainly wouldn't be the first.

It's funny that you say that about the 1080P because I was just thinking today how the 1080 (especially that garbage slow mo at 120) looks worse to me and I need to figure out why but I shoot at 4K regardless of my deliverable. There is a theorem that I can't remember the name of that states basically if you start with the best product, all derivatives will be better. Can't remember if it's a digital theory or not.

So yeah, if you are getting better 1080 than 4K or UHD, then there is a problem somewhere with either the bird or you. I'm not there so can't say which. Hopefully the comments below solved your problem. Good luck.

 

[Jussaguy]

I've got a 50 inch Samsung 4K TV. I record 3840 x 2160 at 30 frames and the video absolutely stunning to watch on the big screen. (I use the card that came with the drone).

I've never had a problem with noise at any resolution. What ISO have you been recording at? If possible, use 100. the higher you go, the more noise you get.

This is fact.

ISO is what controls your sensors sensitivity to light and is a major factor when creating your image, be it video or camera. ISO should be a last resort as, well stated, it introduces noise. So it's like, play with all the things you need to play with and bump up ISO as needed. You should never be too high on ISO when in daylight. The lower the better. 100 ISO is a super black and you'll see artifacts all over the place at even 1600 but there are ways with better cameras to shoot the ISO and also not have too much noise at redonculous levels like in the new Sony A6 Mk2 or whatever its called.

Also, very important. SHOOT IN D-Log or Cine (D-Log is better IMO) and make a constant white balance. It doesn't even matter which. The "Sunny" and "Rainy" or whatever setting are goofy and there for people that really don't know how to use a camera. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the fact that we can get a half decent image out of that camera is a miracle. It's a piece of crap and way better than the CGO3 (don't know about the new CGO3+ yet). The CGO4 is a Panasonic GH4, a pretty good high level prosumer cam.

When you say you use the card that came with the camera, it is the Lexar because that's decent enough although not great. That Panasonic one that's going around, throw in the trash.

I once made a long post about cards here and It lead to me being banned but the lowest rate of your variable speed of writing is of A VERY GREAT importance and if you don't write fast enough, you will get all kinds of weird errors. The camera operates at 4K at a super slow 60mbs which is 1080 speed TBH. I have no idea how they make it work but it does a pretty good job. It's Sony I think making the cameras in there. If you expect Raw footage like a Red Epic than you'll be disappointed but if you want a decent 4K video for things like family vacations, fun, or an occasional wedding or something, it's great.

GOOD LUCK! HAPPY FLYING!

 

[aaronrivera]

Thanks for the comments. But i think the word was "softer" wen i watched the 1080p clip i had at 1600 to 3200 iso. Comparing it to my clip at 4k at same isos, 1080 was more watchable than the grainy n noiser 4k clip i had. Thats y i wanted someone with a 4k tv to compare it as well so that i know its not my tv struggling to playback. Which i doubt. I still think hardware is struggling in p4 to write the 4k data on the card. Sucha a waste buying the extreme pro sandisk though.. Thanks for the explanations boys! I just want to get the best set up so that i dnt hv regrets later wen shooting something spectular. Ill keep playing around wid settings though. Im very happy wid the p4 btw. Its just not a big step up wid the camera in video.

 

[Jussaguy]

Thanks for the comments. But i think the word was "softer" wen i watched the 1080p clip i had at 1600 to 3200 iso. Comparing it to my clip at 4k at same isos, 1080 was more watchable than the grainy n noiser 4k clip i had. Thats y i wanted someone with a 4k tv to compare it as well so that i know its not my tv struggling to playback. Which i doubt. I still think hardware is struggling in p4 to write the 4k data on the card. Sucha a waste buying the extreme pro sandisk though.. Thanks for the explanations boys! I just want to get the best set up so that i dnt hv regrets later wen shooting something spectular. Ill keep playing around wid settings though. Im very happy wid the p4 btw. Its just not a big step up wid the camera in video.

It's not though. I keep using the same examples but if you have an iPhone 6s in your pocket, the camera on it is a lot better than the camera on the Phantom, any of them.

The iPhone 6s can shoot 4K at 127Mbps which is more than twice that of the camera on the P4 which is around 60, and for comparison, the just above average prosumer camera (that shoots in ProRes, not h264 btw) averages about 100MBps and can go as high as 200 in certain settings but not many. It has larger CCDs and better camera components so it shoots a much better image and of course interchangeable lenses and stuff.

But my point is people are not realizing what they are getting with that little camera. It's nothing short of amazing how well it shoots considering its MANY limitations. It is innovative actually I think for a camera that small and hooked up to a flying machine to shoot as well as it does. That said, because of the unfortunate, but needed to keep the price down H264, it doesn't need to be, and really can't be higher than 60. The X5R will change that on the Inspire soon but that will require a HDD, not a MicroHD card because of the file sizes and speeds.

To give you a little perspective, a SSD drive has the information in it (in the right conditions) flying around at about 500mbps while a micro SD card if you get the very best ones (I mean the ones you can barely find) at about 90 (and I mean steady not "can reach").

Also, to your point about someone with a 4K TV vs. a UHD TV, you need to understand the formats. I've tried to explain this too but I'll do it again.

ZERO 4K TVs are UHD. The reason is that 4K is a thinner or wider aspect ratio (DCI 4K (native resolution) 4096 × 2160 1.90:1 while UHD is a larger size and is a TV format (Ultra-high-definition television 3840 × 2160 1.78:1 (16:9).

Okay, that might confuse you to look at but all you really need to know is that 4K is for movie people that want to watch movies at the SAME aspect ratio and frame rate as they do in the theater which is really why there is only one frame rate for it 24 (which is what 90-95% of all theaters are and the exceptions are for things like 3D where they sometimes have 48 so you have 24 in each eye for the stereoscopic 3D 24 in each eye).

UHD, which is a TV standard is exactly 2x the size of 1920x1080 (1080p). Multiply 1920x1080 = 3840x2160 (TV). If you take the 2k of film and double it DCI 2K 2048 × 1080 4096x2160 (FILM).

I'm pretty sure almost all UHD TVs can play 4K (but with a letter box because of the minor size discrepancy above).

*So the reason at 4K you can see your grain more is because you can see more. More resolution, more color space and just more everything is gonna show everything more, for better or worse and jacking that little camera up to 3200 ISO or whatever you said, is gonna create a lot of grain.

This image visualizes all the crap I just wrote:

See how you could fit that 4K into the UHD screen, but not vice versa. Actually you could but you would lose part of the UHD resolution and you would have to pan and scan or just cut off the video. If anyone that was into video for over a decade and is over 30-35 remember pan and scan well because when movies came to a 4x3 TV we literally were missing about 35-40% of the movie! It drove directors nuts. That's why movie buffs started demanding the cinematic 4k versions even on the 4x3 NTSC televisions. It was not as bad on PAL because even though it wasn't as wide as anamorphic 4k, it was still 16x9 long before we caught on. When they invented NTSC (National Television Standard Committee), they thought they were gonna make film better by raising the resolution to basically 30fps (29.97 drop frame, where it drop every 10th frame to not have the audio slip with 48k). PAL (Phase Alternating Lines) ran at 25fps (closer to film) and 16x9 as I said. I used to marvel at the difference of how PAL vs NTSC looked when I would travel to Europe. Night and day. Also, the colors were better for PAL.

But now here we all are and we still have to deal with the NTSC and PAL standard but not the actual formats. Just what kind of TV it is. It matters not at all in actuality.

What does matter is understanding the formats and resolutions, frame rates, pixel aspect ratios (is it square, circular, rectangular?), refresh rates, and most importantly BITRATES, and then the media. People are used to point and shoot and automation and you can get away with it but if you want to create, you better understand these things. If you want to know what you're doing even with automation, you need a little bit of understanding on what's going on underneath the hood. It's a strange thing that has happened with these photography UAVs, as you need to have a pretty strong interest in both to have the desire to really learn it.

By the way, if you don't believe me that the iPhone 6s shoot better 4k than the Phantom (any of them), check out this video shot with an iPhone 6s 4k with UltraCam 4K. The apps on the iPhone really matter BTW. The video I am linking to below, please watch on a 4K screen. It is honestly a beautiful 10 seconds of video. One of the best I've ever seen from a purely crisp, clean and colorful vid. I would believe it was shot on any camera in the world if I didn't know it was an iPhone 6s but I would never believe in a second it was shot with a P4 or any other integrated low grade prosumer camera. No drone shoots this nice under $5000.

http://esotericsean.com/video/iPhone6s_4K_Sample.mov

Happy Flying!

 

[Jussaguy]

What fps does the 4k shoot in at night, you can't have the best of both worlds you have to lower your fps to something around 24fps, this will allow you to shoot at a max ISO 400 and a lowish shutter speed, keep that 3dr crap, or what ever they call it, off.

See again, 4K only has one resolution on the P4 24, and it actually has 25 too. It's a film resolution. UHD if I remember has 24, 25, and I think 30. 30 will give you the most detail but less cinematic so it's what you are going for. You also increase the likelihood of artifacts at 30fps when doing quick movements because it's super sharp. I would recommend bringing down sharpness to "-2" or maybe just "-1". I've found -1 to be a pretty sweet spot for all fps. On my P3, it was -2 or even -3 but they made it less sharp because of all the aliasing complaints. You shoot 4k at 30fps and compress it, you're gonna get motion artifacts.

Okay, back to work,

 

[aaronrivera]

Wow...thanks alot for that long detailed info. U must like typing. I wish u could do a video explaining all these stuff about the p4s camera. So wt settings do u usually use? Also pal or ntsc and mov or mp4? Should i format my sdcard to ntfs or fat32 is ok?

 

[Ibmftw]

Yeh I think a lot of people without cinematography knowledge see high frame rate options and get excited, WRONG. If your trying to make footage that looks like what you watch on tv or the cinema, Google cinematic motion blur and camera filters, high frame rates, are not what you need to make a "movie" look pretty.

 

[sergekouper]

Ah Ah Ah ! It's like this kid (OMG No it's not even a kid...)has received too much information...He has now much more data inside than his brain can process and he is ingesting it slowly... But don't know yet what all that means exactly. So when it comes out it's not exactly in the right order.... lol I'm pissing in my pants laughing. I rarely read a so huge amount of crap at the same time.There is a dicton: Culture is like Jam; The less you have, the more you spread it! lol, He needs some one to re explain him from scratch. Frankly I'm not up to it. He killed me with his posts...

 

[aaronrivera]

Umm. Ok

 

[DonaldictTrumperbatch]

Shouldnt be any mystery here. The sensor can do 4k native (four times 1080). At 1080 the full sensor area is still illuminated so 1080 is interpolatimg pixels read from the sensor before any additional processing. Noise is reduced by averaging.

Are you sure that the camera can do pixel binning? Because that would be quite an advanced feature of pro cameras. I suspect that more likely it just samples from fewer pixels, and therefore doesn't provide any noise advantages at 1080p...