Rules about flying in the U.K

[Mark Ryan]

I am about to buy a P3 advanced. Primarily for taking videos of my dogs at the beach, parks etc

I wold like to also use it for my daughters wedding exit from the church

The rules about flying this I am still unsuremains about so could anyone give guidance about using my P3. Is it a big no no or are the authorities not really bothered about people taking these sort of flights
All help appriciated

 

[Tris]

The Law - FPV UK

 

[Mark Ryan]

The Law - FPV UK

So basically not allowed to fly anywhere really then.

 

[Tris]

Someone may be along to clear it up a bit shortly I'm in work so can't go into it at the moment. For the reason above (wedding filming) I'd say go for it as long as the church above are happy and the guests are aware and less than 1000 of them then you could. What I'd be concerned about is your flying experience and the risk of ruining the big day by flying into the bridesmaids or a guest. Have you heard the sound of a DJI hovering? Not the romantic exit your daughter imagines on leaving the church either I suspect.

 

[Waylander]

Hi Mark
Tris is correct in what he says, however one must consider the interpretation and application of the rules.

My opinion for what it's worth...!
I believe there is an assumption in the rules, aimed at pilots who may want to fly ad hoc wherever they please, that precludes permission.
Let me try to clarify my assumption:-

If you wanted to film in an open area some footage of your grown up Son or Daughter playing with their children, having obtained your Son/Daughters consent, will you be falling foul of the rules if you take off within 30 meters, I think not...
because you would be deemed to have those people under your direct control.
As seen here from the Rules......
(4) Paragraphs (2)(d) and (3) do not apply to the person in charge of the small unmanned surveillance aircraft or a person under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.

I believe that the same can be said of buildings etc provided that you have obtained the appropriate permission.

Flight over crowds etc is I believe different, because you cannot be deemed to have obtained individual permission.
However a flight over a group of your friends who agree to the overflight, is again in my opinion acceptable.

I have been involved with the UK Health & Safety Executive over a number of years, (not with regard to UAV's), and have seen common sense prevail in many contested interpretations of the "Rules", generally the application of this section of the CAA Rules, is intended to ensure that individuals do not infringe a third party's right to privacy, or inadvertently put them or their property in jeopardy.

I think its down to common sense, if you fly responsibly and with the relevant permissions, then I don't believe you will be challenged.

Good luck with the wedding...
Waylander

 

[teccer]

) over or within 150 meters of any congested area;
=============================================
so does this include a cottage out on it's own in the countryside ?
recently I was accosted by a guy for flying "over" his house in the countryside, my flight log shows that the nearest I got to his house was 108 meters

 

[Waylander]

) over or within 150 meters of any congested area;
=============================================
so does this include a cottage out on it's own in the countryside ?
recently I was accosted by a guy for flying "over" his house in the countryside, my flight log shows that the nearest I got to his house was 108 meters

This is the applicable rule...

(c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.

Again, my opinion is this, if you obtain the consent from the owner of the vehicle or structure, then it can be deemed to be that the object in question is "under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft", so the 50 meter prohibition need not apply.

Not withstanding that.. its 50 meters not 150 meters in the event that the object is a structure
Waylander

 

[teccer]

thanks Waylander,
as I was expecting him to have another go at me next time I flew across the field, so according to what you say as long as I'm more than 50 meters away from his house (structure) he can't do anything about it, I always try to be careful keeping away from property just for this very reason,
strange thing is I've been building and flying tricopters and quads fitted with cameras around here for the last 4 -5 years but now with the dreaded white Phantom "DRONE" some newcomers to the village are complaining, all stirred up by the media I recon

BTW, is this a CAA recommendation not a law

 

[Waylander]

thanks Waylander,
as I was expecting him to have another go at me next time I flew across the field, so according to what you say as long as I'm more than 50 meters away from his house (structure) he can't do anything about it, I always try to be careful keeping away from property just for this very reason,
strange thing is I've been building and flying tricopters and quads fitted with cameras around here for the last 4 -5 years but now with the dreaded white Phantom "DRONE" some newcomers to the village are complaining, all stirred up by the media I recon

BTW, is this a CAA recommendation not a law

Ahh the LAW... I'm not a Lawyer, and as with all "Law" there can sometimes be different interpretations/applications, here is a paragraph form the CAA document:-

"Small unmanned aircraft are now widely available for commercial and recreational use. More popularly known as drones, they can cause injury or damage if they are not used responsibly and so are subject to safety rules, which are underpinned by UK law."

The salient part of this paragraph is " subject to safety rules, which are underpinned by UK law ", which is not quite like stating " subject to the safety rules blah blah blah, which IS the Law", in my humble opinion the caveat " underpinned" requires that an infringement of the accepted "safety rules" would have to be proved, and then a mechanism invoked which showed how and under which English Law, the infringement occurred. ( my interpretation )

Here is a link to the CAA the document:-

Unmanned Aircraft | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Take Care fly safe
Waylander

 

[Tris]

Well said waylander. The regulations certainly are open to interpretation. As long as it's not commercial work I think as long as you fly with regard for others your pretty safe legally. I have 3rd party liability insurance and fly as a hobby only on land I have permission to fly over but also some public spaces but following the guidelines keeping safe distances and respecting the areas I fly. So far I have only had positive interest and comments from the public.

 

[teccer]

[QUOTE="Tris, post: 912887, member: 67908" I have 3rd party liability insurance and fly as a hobby

what insurance do you have, where did you get it. how much did it cost, or is it on your household policy?

 

[Tris]

[QUOTE="Tris, post: 912887, member: 67908" I have 3rd party liability insurance and fly as a hobby

what insurance do you have, where did you get it. how much did it cost, or is it on your household policy?

Join fpvuk.org or the British model flying association and as a member you are covered up to £5,000,000 with 3rd party insurance. Fpvuk.org is £15 for a 12 month period I believe the BMFA is approx the same.

 

[teccer]

Join fpvuk.org or the British model flying association and as a member you are covered up to £5,000,000 with 3rd party insurance. Fpvuk.org is £15 for a 12 month period I believe the BMFA is approx the same.

I did read about this during the winter and was going to join but I'm sure that I read in the small print that only 50 members can be insured at one time so I never joined

 

[Mark Ryan]

Hi Mark
Tris is correct in what he says, however one must consider the interpretation and application of the rules.

My opinion for what it's worth...!
I believe there is an assumption in the rules, aimed at pilots who may want to fly ad hoc wherever they please, that precludes permission.
Let me try to clarify my assumption:-

If you wanted to film in an open area some footage of your grown up Son or Daughter playing with their children, having obtained your Son/Daughters consent, will you be falling foul of the rules if you take off within 30 meters, I think not...
because you would be deemed to have those people under your direct control.
As seen here from the Rules......
(4) Paragraphs (2)(d) and (3) do not apply to the person in charge of the small unmanned surveillance aircraft or a person under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.

I believe that the same can be said of buildings etc provided that you have obtained the appropriate permission.

Flight over crowds etc is I believe different, because you cannot be deemed to have obtained individual permission.
However a flight over a group of your friends who agree to the overflight, is again in my opinion acceptable.

I have been involved with the UK Health & Safety Executive over a number of years, (not with regard to UAV's), and have seen common sense prevail in many contested interpretations of the "Rules", generally the application of this section of the CAA Rules, is intended to ensure that individuals do not infringe a third party's right to privacy, or inadvertently put them or their property in jeopardy.

I think its down to common sense, if you fly responsibly and with the relevant permissions, then I don't believe you will be challenged.

Good luck with the wedding...
Waylander

Many thanks for your input. It's very grateful

 

[Bluebouye]

I am about to buy a P3 advanced. Primarily for taking videos of my dogs at the beach, parks etc

I wold like to also use it for my daughters wedding exit from the church

The rules about flying this I am still unsuremains about so could anyone give guidance about using my P3. Is it a big no no or are the authorities not really bothered about people taking these sort of flights
All help appriciated

I personally would stay well clear of filming of a wedding with little or no experience. Whilst these things are super stable in GPS mode imagine if you lost GPS and to fly it manually, whilst you would still have a barometer helping you keep altitude you would drift in the prevailing wind, couple this with the panic that will set in, you might find yourself very quickly confused and start making irrational stick inputs......believe me it happens and it all happens very quick when you're inexperienced. Next thing you know someone has a quad in their face on your daughters special day. I don't want to be all doom and gloom but I would recommend getting to grips with your phantom and flying it without GPS, this will go some way to teaching you to fly it manually should you ever need to.

 

[JasyBabyYa]

Hey guys I've just got a Phantom 4 and have been reading all the rules over and and over and it mentions in the CAA Rules that if a UAV ( Drone ) Is under 7KG you do not need to get permission to fly in ATz & Matz Airspace in the UK if its safe to do so , I am not planning on flying close to the airport but I want to fly in the airspace safely to get an aerial view of my town , Yeovil in somerset. Can someone confirm to me if this is ok ?

 

[Waylander]

Hey guys I've just got a Phantom 4 and have been reading all the rules over and and over and it mentions in the CAA Rules that if a UAV ( Drone ) Is under 7KG you do not need to get permission to fly in ATz & Matz Airspace in the UK if its safe to do so , I am not planning on flying close to the airport but I want to fly in the airspace safely to get an aerial view of my town , Yeovil in somerset. Can someone confirm to me if this is ok ?

Hi JasyBabyYa

look at Article 94 in the following document:- Unmanned Aircraft | UK Civil Aviation Authority ( I mentioned this document earlier in the post, it applies to the UK ).

Waylander

 

[JasyBabyYa]

4) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft which has a mass of more
than 7kg excluding its fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or
attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight, must not fly the
aircraft:

(a) in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless the permission of the appropriate air
traffic control unit has been obtained;

(b) within an aerodrome traffic zone during the notified hours of watch of the
air traffic control unit (if any) at that aerodrome unless the permission of
any such air traffic control unit has been obtained;
or
(c) at a height of more than 400 feet above the surface unless it is flying in
airspace described in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) and in accordance with the
requirements for that airspace.


So because the Phantom 4 is less than 7KG I can legally fly in these zones then correct ?

 

[Waylander]

4) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft which has a mass of more
than 7kg excluding its fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or
attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight, must not fly the
aircraft:

(a) in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless the permission of the appropriate air
traffic control unit has been obtained;

(b) within an aerodrome traffic zone during the notified hours of watch of the
air traffic control unit (if any) at that aerodrome unless the permission of
any such air traffic control unit has been obtained;
or
(c) at a height of more than 400 feet above the surface unless it is flying in
airspace described in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) and in accordance with the
requirements for that airspace.


So because the Phantom 4 is less than 7KG I can legally fly in these zones then correct ?

In as much as that interpretation would seem to allow flight, it is not unconditional flight, there are other articles, and also DJi's built in restrictions which would affect take off, whilst a 400 feet ceiling is allowed out beyond or on the perimeter of the controlled zone, the ceiling reduces the closer you get to the restricted zone, and at some point, if you had up-to date software installed in the Phantom, you would not even be able to take off.

Waylander