Propeller apparently broke off mid flight...Part II...

[Harleydude]

Hey doods;

So I just thought I would bring you up to speed on the continuing saga. If you didn't read the first thread, basically a propeller ejected off the right-rear motor roughly 6 minutes into an automated flight. The foresics were pretty clear that it was a mechanical failure. Fortunately, DJI disagreed with sar104's expert assessment that I had somehow "misinstalled" the prop (which ejected itself after roughly 6 minutes of flight), and warranted my P4P. It took them less than 24 hours to agree with MY assessment, as the evidence was pretty profound in my favor. Funny how some can see that kind of overwhelming forensic evidence, yet still reach erroneous conclusions. But I digress....

At any rate, DJI stepped up to the plate and sent a replacement bird, which arrived today. The serial number is different, so I know the bird was replaced, as opposed to repaired. I'm not sure if it's a new or refurb, but it looks brand new. Kudos to DJI for not only stepping up, but for the quick turn-around. I'm quick to ***** at them when I waste 45 minutes in chat support, so I feel I should be equally as quick to praise them when they respond quickly and in a fair manner.

I just finished rolling back the FW to my favorite version and hacked the NFZ and Height limits and will test fly her at the park tomorrow morning. In the afternoon she'll be flying a small mapping job, so hopefully no more propeller fly-offs.

Again, if anyone has experienced this kind of propeller ejection mid-flight with your P4P (or birds with similar locking systems), I wish you would share your experience. I've not heard of this type of prop failure before or since.

Later daze,

D

 

[Fly Dawg]

If you didn't read the first thread, basically a propeller ejected off the right-rear motor roughly 6 minutes into an automated flight. The foresics were pretty clear that it was a mechanical failure. Fortunately, DJI disagreed with sar104's expert assessment that I had somehow "misinstalled" the prop (which ejected itself after roughly 6 minutes of flight)

I have not seen your original thread on this issue, however it is good that you were able to "convince" DJI somehow of the issue at hand. The only thing that I will add here is that when people offer you assistance in the forums, you should not be critical of "conclusions" made by those of us who basically can only refer to data analysis along with first hand accounts of anomolies or other factors without actually having "hands" on the AC itself. In reference and defense to @sar104 s assessment of this, in my opinion the only way to determine that there was a "mechanical" issue would be to actually "see" a mechanical problem, such as in this case a cracked prop mount, hub or other mechanical damage to the AC. All the data that is available would not tell you that. It only gives indications through analysis of a prop issue, which in more cases than not is indeed an ejected mis-installed prop.

 

[xspwhite]

If it's refurbished then the fith charactor of the SN would be an R or S.

 

[sar104]

I have not seen your original thread on this issue, however it is good that you were able to "convince" DJI somehow of the issue at hand. The only thing that I will add here is that when people offer you assistance in the forums, you should not be critical of "conclusions" made by those of us who basically can only refer to data analysis along with first hand accounts of anomolies or other factors without actually having "hands" on the AC itself. In reference and defense to @sar104 s assessment of this, in my opinion the only way to determine that there was a "mechanical" issue would be to actually "see" a mechanical problem, such as in this case a cracked prop mount, hub or other mechanical damage to the AC. All the data that is available would not tell you that. It only gives indications through analysis of a prop issue, which in more cases than not is indeed an ejected mis-installed prop.

If there was "overwhelming forensic evidence" then the OP never presented it. He recovered no broken parts and his entire argument was based on his inability to comprehend how a Phantom could even take off with a mis-installed bayonet-style prop, and his inability to replicate it. I simply pointed out that it could happen, and has happened, with both Phantoms and Mavics, and that in the absence of a damaged or broken hub then it was the most likely explanation. I still have no idea what the alternative explanation is - catastrophic hub disintegration seems like the only obvious possibility, and not very likely at all unless it was abused beforehand.

Anyway, I guess his overwhelming forensic evidence is now simply the fact that DJI replaced it. A good outcome in that sense.

 

[Skynet1]

I have not seen your original thread on this issue, however it is good that you were able to "convince" DJI somehow of the issue at hand. The only thing that I will add here is that when people offer you assistance in the forums, you should not be critical of "conclusions" made by those of us who basically can only refer to data analysis along with first hand accounts of anomolies or other factors without actually having "hands" on the AC itself. In reference and defense to @sar104 s assessment of this, in my opinion the only way to determine that there was a "mechanical" issue would be to actually "see" a mechanical problem, such as in this case a cracked prop mount, hub or other mechanical damage to the AC. All the data that is available would not tell you that. It only gives indications through analysis of a prop issue, which in more cases than not is indeed an ejected mis-installed prop.

+1

 

[Harleydude]

I have not seen your original thread on this issue, however it is good that you were able to "convince" DJI somehow of the issue at hand.

I didn't have to "convince" DJI of anything. They did what any SMART person would do. They examined the evidence and formed a conclusion. I guess they check their opinions at the door. Thank god for small miracles, eh?

The only thing that I will add here is that when people offer you assistance in the forums, you should not be critical of "conclusions" made by those of us who basically can only refer to data analysis along with first hand accounts of anomolies or other factors without actually having "hands" on the AC itself.

I agree if those assessments and/or opinions are solicited. However, not only were additional assessments and opinions NOT solicited, but I was very specific that I knew the problem and cause. What I DID solicit were if anyone else experienced random prop fly-offs. The quickest way to get on my **** list is to not only NOT answer the question(s) I asked, but to answer questions I most certainly did NOT ask. If you want to dive deeper into the **** list, push back after I point this out. The reason I loathe rhetoric is it clogs the thread with unwanted, unsolicited "opinions." If I ask you, "Has your car radiator every overflowed?" The LAST thing I want is you to respond with, "Well maybe you should've cleaned it out." I KNOW why the radiator overflowed. I'm just asking if that ever happened to you.

In reference and defense to @sar104 s assessment of this, in my opinion the only way to determine that there was a "mechanical" issue would be to actually "see" a mechanical problem, such as in this case a cracked prop mount, hub or other mechanical damage to the AC."

1) I didn't solicit opinion on this subject.
2) You'd be wrong. All any reasonable person, persons or entity would require is the .DAT file and the drone to determine what happened. Even with $1,000 on the table, they agreed with my assessment quickly and without debate.
3) The broken propeller was never recovered. So your "opinion" that you would need physical evidence of a broken propeller is dead wrong.
4) Sharp, clear, high-definition photos of the offending hub/motor were provided. They were pristine. In absence of the actual propeller, the REMAINING physical evidence combined with the DIGITAL evidence painted a VERY clear picture.

In case you hadn't noticed, this is a colossal waste of time and bandwidth.

All the data that is available would not tell you that.

Fortunately for me, DJI hires smart people to handle these forensic assessments.

It only gives indications through analysis of a prop issue, which in more cases than not is indeed an ejected mis-installed prop.

Fortunately for me, DJI hires smart people to handle these forensic assessments. Took them mere hours to figure out what happened. No propeller needed.

<sigh>

D

 

[Fly Dawg]

Sharp, clear, high-definition photos of the offending hub/motor were provided. They were pristine. In absence of the actual propeller, the REMAINING physical evidence combined with the DIGITAL evidence painted a VERY clear picture.

As I said before and as @sar104 mentioned, this evidence was never provided. Since I did not see the original posting, or do not recall if I did or not, if you provided the .dat files, that was basically all that anyone could provide input on in this regard. I am not arguing the fact that DJI covered your claim, however they had the actual AC and the .dat files as we only have the latter. It is impossible to form a 100% accurate conclusion on any "mechanical" issue without the former of the two. That is all I was saying.

 

[sar104]

As I said before and as @sar104 mentioned, this evidence was never provided. Since I did not see the original posting, or do not recall if I did or not, if you provided the .dat files, that was basically all that anyone could provide input on in this regard. I am not arguing the fact that DJI covered your claim, however they had the actual AC and the .dat files as we only have the latter. It is impossible to form a 100% accurate conclusion on any "mechanical" issue without the former of the two. That is all I was saying.

The photos of the hubs were provided, and they did, indeed, look pristine. I'm not sure why that represents evidence of mechanical failure, since they would look pristine if a prop were not fully locked and later ejected.

However, reasoned argument was, and apparently still is futile in this case. In his original post he was clearly just looking for validation of his argument to get a free replacement. Now he's simply back to gloat about getting one, with a couple of nice little jabs at the free advice he got the first time. I need to get better at spotting these kinds of posters earlier.

 

[Harleydude]

As I said before and as @sar104 mentioned, this evidence was never provided.

I'm not sure what you mean by "this evidence." Photos of the bird and screen shots of the pertinent .DAT data was provided.

Since I did not see the original posting, or do not recall if I did or not, if you provided the .dat files, that was basically all that anyone could provide input on in this regard.

Exactly.

I am not arguing the fact that DJI covered your claim, however they had the actual AC and the .dat files as we only have the latter.

I provided high-resolution photos of the pertinent parts of the drone, which was the failed motor. The photos clearly showed that the motor and hub were like brand new. Therefore, the only other point of failure that could possibly exist is the prop itself. I made a video to show that a misinstalled prop would eject itself IMMEDIATELY - NOT stay attached for 6 minutes and then let go. Therefore, entertaining the theory that the prop was "misinstalled" is insane.

It is impossible to form a 100% accurate conclusion on any "mechanical" issue without the former of the two. That is all I was saying.

By process of elimination, we can be 100% certain the prop failed. This is further exacerbated via the digital data, which absolutely, positively, 100%, without a doubt shows the prop failed. Apparently the experts at DJI agree. In less than 24 hours they conceded. I had a new bird in less than a week. Had DJI had the same doubts you have, or required the same evidence you require (the old prop), they would've denied my claim. Therefore, it's easy to conclude that DJI doesn't share your doubt or requirement for the old prop (which is god knows where).

 

[Harleydude]

The photos of the hubs were provided, and they did, indeed, look pristine. I'm not sure why that represents evidence of mechanical failure, since they would look pristine if a prop were not fully locked and later ejected.

Happy to explain. By process of elimination, if the motor is pristine, and the hub is pristine, the only remaining point of failure is the prop. Therefore, by process of elimination, we can be 100% sure the propeller failed mid flight. Apparently DJI agrees.

However, reasoned argument was, and apparently still is futile in this case.

Entertaining any conclusion other than prop failure would be insane. Literally, there is no other posssible conclusion. Apparently DJI agrees.

In his original post he was clearly just looking for validation of his argument to get a free replacement.

Nope. My original post ASKED if anyone else had seen this type of random prop failure mid-flight. That's it. Pure and simple. No more. I most certainly did NOT ask for "other theories" of what "may have happened." This seems to be a comprehension issue. I wrote in English and used high-school level vernacular and syntax.

Now he's simply back to gloat about getting one, with a couple of nice little jabs at the free advice he got the first time.

Actually, if you read my original post, you will see that, once again, I have asked if this happened to anybody else. And, once again, you seem to have somehow missed that point. I honestly don't know how to ask questions any simpler. One question was asked in both posts, neither of which you answered. I don't know what to say, amigo. I honestly thought I had idiot-proofed the process. Apparently not.

I need to get better at spotting these kinds of posters earlier.

SUPER easy. Just answer the questions that are asked, and save the rest.

D

 

[Harleydude]

I feel the need to further clarify my objective here. My ONLY objectives are:

1) to find out if this type of mid-flight prop failure is a trend.
2) to let users of this forum know that if you see this type of failure, I can save you about $1,000 by letting you know that DJI will cover it under warranty. You're welcome.

 

[Fly Dawg]

1) to find out if this type of mid-flight prop failure is a trend.
2) to let users of this forum know that if you see this type of failure, I can save you about $1,000 by letting you know that DJI will cover it under warranty. You're welcome.

#1) Agreed

#2) If you are suggesting that "I" ( Meaning yourself ) can save you $1000, this is pure arrogance. Good you were able to get the issue resolved bottom line. Thread closed from my prospective.

 

[Skynet1]

The photos of the hubs were provided, and they did, indeed, look pristine. I'm not sure why that represents evidence of mechanical failure, since they would look pristine if a prop were not fully locked and later ejected.

However, reasoned argument was, and apparently still is futile in this case. In his original post he was clearly just looking for validation of his argument to get a free replacement. Now he's simply back to gloat about getting one, with a couple of nice little jabs at the free advice he got the first time. I need to get better at spotting these kinds of posters earlier.

Fortunately, the type of posters you refer to are far and few between, as I'm fairly certain most folks simply appreciate the time and efforts expelled trying to recreate the chain of events leading up to a catastrophic event, as well as any such calculated conclusions offered.

 

[Skynet1]

I feel the need to further clarify my objective here. My ONLY objectives are:

1) to find out if this type of mid-flight prop failure is a trend.
2) to let users of this forum know that if you see this type of failure, I can save you about $1,000 by letting you know that DJI will cover it under warranty. You're welcome.

I personally am sorry you have chosen to debate this issue so feverishly, Harleydude.
Please permit me to state that much of the information you had set out to accomplish as mentioned in #1 above most likely could have been ascertained thru a search of the forum threads.
In regards to attesting to what DJI staff may or may not conclude as a result of there findings on any such similar incidents is a bit of a stretch, IMHO.
Havings said that, I'm glad that DJI has decided in your favor, and can only hope that they would become less stringent and more flexible in there findings with other such crash investigations of the DJI product line.

 

[THECaptainKirk]

Although it could be qualified as “profiling”, one look at this arrogant and obnoxious poster’s screen name may be the first clue as type to avoid offering assistance to in the future. You all were way more polite than I would be to this guy. So unnecessarily combative and as an outsider looking in I’m pretty confident the majority of readers of this post had the same feeling. Good luck receiving any help in the future mister Harley “DUDE”. Clearly, you’re way too perfect for the rest of us.

 

[dorbot]

I like turtles.

 

[Harleydude]

#1) Agreed

#2) If you are suggesting that "I" ( Meaning yourself ) can save you $1000, this is pure arrogance. Good you were able to get the issue resolved bottom line. Thread closed from my prospective.

I wasn't trying to be arrogant. I shared information I thought might save drone pilots in a similar situation up to about a thousand bucks. Perhaps I should've included a smiley emoticon to convey my light-hearted intention.

 

[Harleydude]

Fortunately, the type of posters you refer to are far and few between, as I'm fairly certain most folks simply appreciate the time and efforts expelled trying to recreate the chain of events leading up to a catastrophic event, as well as any such calculated conclusions offered.

The case was solved. 100%. I didn't solicit other theories or advice (free or otherwise). I DID, however, ask if anyone had experienced the same issue. Instead of getting an answer to that very concise, simple question, I was told that I misinstalled the prop. NOT useful. NOT helpful. I prefer NO advice to bad advice. Perhaps you and I differ in that regard???

Apparently DJI agreed with me. Certainly, if DJI even remotely thought that this was MY fault, they would've AT LEAST asked more questions. Instead, DJI IMMEDIATELY accepted my account of what happened, and replaced my entire drone. So, yeah....I got a little bent when it was suggested that I "misinstalled a prop." I've been flying RC since the 80's. I know how to install a prop.

Perhaps I need to learn to be more patient with those "just trying to help," even if they're not. My bad. I'll work on it.

 

[Harleydude]

Although it could be qualified as “profiling”, one look at this arrogant and obnoxious poster’s screen name may be the first clue as type to avoid offering assistance to in the future. You all were way more polite than I would be to this guy. So unnecessarily combative and as an outsider looking in I’m pretty confident the majority of readers of this post had the same feeling. Good luck receiving any help in the future mister Harley “DUDE”. Clearly, you’re way too perfect for the rest of us.

If I ask, "Have you ever experienced this?" And instead of answering that question, you reply, "You misinstalled the prop," then yes, you can save that "free advice." Not in a thousand years would I do that to you. Perhaps we differ in that regard.

You really should read the whole thing. I will concede that I probably got too bent out of shape about it. But I would honestly rather have NO advice than to receive UNSOLICITED advice (if you can call "you misinstalled the prop" advice). The case was solved. 100%. I didn't need more theories or advice. Therefore, I didn't solicit more theories or advice. I DID, however, ask if anyone had experienced a prop fly-off. 2 dozen paragraphs from this guy, and he didn't answer the question that WAS asked. I WAS, however, told that I probably misinstalled the prop. So, yeah, I got a little bent out of shape.

My bad. I will try to be more patient in the future.

 

[Chrislaf]

Fortunately for me, DJI hires smart people to handle these forensic assessments.


D

Fortunately for us, there are many smart people here who volunteer their time, effort and skills to help others understand what went wrong when they have a problem. Even though I have not yet had a crash, I appreciate their help and have learned from help given to other members - maybe you should too!