Need some help-want to reduce yaw speed/sensitivity

[havasuphoto]

I'm a new Phantom "driver", and have made a few test flights. My set-up includes the Futaba T8J RX/TX, and in Naza-M, everything is set to the Default sensitivity. I've been told you can edit these values....?
For example-my Yaw rate % is set to 125%. I want to reduce that-it's too sensitive in the yaw access.

What have you found works best? I was thinking of changing it to 100% or less, and working my way down from there. Any thoughts?

 

[OI Photography]

DJI's instructions in the NAZA assistant give advice on one way to do it, but with your controller, you can temporarily map X1 and X2 to dials on the Tx, and adjust the gain values during each flight. Under the gain adjustment field(s), change the drop-down list from INH (inhibited) to X1 or X2, and then map your Tx accordingly. While you're flying, you can use the dials to tweak the gains up and down and see the effect in real-time. I just did the same, and am using that to get them dialed in just right. You can re-map X1 and X2 back to whatever you were using them for previously, once you get the gains where you want them. It's also an easy way to find the right adjustment whenever you change the AUW, etc.

 

[havasuphoto]

DJI's instructions in the NAZA assistant give advice on one way to do it, but with your controller, you can temporarily map X1 and X2 to dials on the Tx, and adjust the gain values during each flight. Under the gain adjustment field(s), change the drop-down list from INH (inhibited) to X1 or X2, and then map your Tx accordingly. While you're flying, you can use the dials to tweak the gains up and down and see the effect in real-time. I just did the same, and am using that to get them dialed in just right. You can re-map X1 and X2 back to whatever you were using them for previously, once you get the gains where you want them. It's also an easy way to find the right adjustment whenever you change the AUW, etc.

One slight problem with using the VR knob to adjust Gain Values-it's already assigned to my Zenmous to tilt the camera up/down.

I read somewhere(the manual of the Futaba T8J), that could could turn switch B(the one on top, 2nd one in from the left of the controller-it's not currently assigned), to cut yaw by 50%. But, when I called my "tech support" guy-he didn't know how to do that.

Any other suggestions?
Have you found a value that works for you? I need the yaw to be relatively slow and deliberate for panning the camera.

 

[Dave Pitman]

DJI's instructions in the NAZA assistant give advice on one way to do it, but with your controller, you can temporarily map X1 and X2 to dials on the Tx, and adjust the gain values during each flight. Under the gain adjustment field(s), change the drop-down list from INH (inhibited) to X1 or X2, and then map your Tx accordingly. While you're flying, you can use the dials to tweak the gains up and down and see the effect in real-time. I just did the same, and am using that to get them dialed in just right. You can re-map X1 and X2 back to whatever you were using them for previously, once you get the gains where you want them. It's also an easy way to find the right adjustment whenever you change the AUW, etc.

One slight problem with using the VR knob to adjust Gain Values-it's already assigned to my Zenmous to tilt the camera up/down.

Why not do as Ol Photography suggests. Make some test flights to find the gains you want to use. Do not worry about Photography and tilting the gimbal on these flights, simple?

 

[OI Photography]

DJI's instructions in the NAZA assistant give advice on one way to do it, but with your controller, you can temporarily map X1 and X2 to dials on the Tx, and adjust the gain values during each flight. Under the gain adjustment field(s), change the drop-down list from INH (inhibited) to X1 or X2, and then map your Tx accordingly. While you're flying, you can use the dials to tweak the gains up and down and see the effect in real-time. I just did the same, and am using that to get them dialed in just right. You can re-map X1 and X2 back to whatever you were using them for previously, once you get the gains where you want them. It's also an easy way to find the right adjustment whenever you change the AUW, etc.

One slight problem with using the VR knob to adjust Gain Values-it's already assigned to my Zenmous to tilt the camera up/down.

Why not do as Ol Photography suggests. Make some test flights to find the gains you want to use. Do not worry about Photography and tilting the gimbal on these flights, simple?

Right, I figured X1/X2 might already be in use (like for the gimbal), but you can reassign that easily just while you get the gains dialed in.

Havasu, it's usually better to just find your correct values than trying to use other "known" values...what your own aircraft will need varies on a number of factors, including your exact configuration of weight, power, and other things.

 

[havasuphoto]

Just so I'm clear-I change the yaw value to X1(can't change to X2). When I do that-I notice that turning the gain knob now controls the value of the yaw channel. However, when I move the yaw stick left and right, those values remain +/- 1000.
Is this correct?
So, while flying, and I turn the VR knob counter-clockwise, the yaw sensitivity should be reduced. Once I'm happy with that value, I can power down-hook everything back up to the PC, check that number-and make that number the INH value for the yaw channel?

 

[OI Photography]

Just so I'm clear-I change the yaw value to X1(can't change to X2). When I do that-I notice that turning the gain knob now controls the value of the yaw channel. However, when I move the yaw stick left and right, those values remain +/- 1000.
Is this correct?
So, while flying, and I turn the VR knob counter-clockwise, the yaw sensitivity should be reduced. Once I'm happy with that value, I can power down-hook everything back up to the PC, check that number-and make that number the INH value for the yaw channel?

You have it pretty much right. You'll have to disable IOC in the assistant if you want to use X2 for this (in addition to or in place of X1). Sounds like your Tx/Rx are configured correctly if you see the gain values change as you adjust the knob. Adjusting that knob while flying will change those gain values in real-time, but not your stick calibration or motion. And yes, once you get stable flight, check the assistant again to see/note what values you ended up with. Then you can map X1 back to the gimbal.

Note, you can change more than one gain value at a time, by assigning multiple gains to X1 or X2 at a time. I usually start by adjusting Pitch/Roll together, and then Yaw separately.

Btw, the first row of gain values adjust the NAZA's internal calculating sensitivity on those axis, the second row adjusts the gain on what your NAZA reads as your control input.

 

[havasuphoto]

Just so I'm clear-I change the yaw value to X1(can't change to X2). When I do that-I notice that turning the gain knob now controls the value of the yaw channel. However, when I move the yaw stick left and right, those values remain +/- 1000.
Is this correct?
So, while flying, and I turn the VR knob counter-clockwise, the yaw sensitivity should be reduced. Once I'm happy with that value, I can power down-hook everything back up to the PC, check that number-and make that number the INH value for the yaw channel?

You have it pretty much right. You'll have to disable IOC in the assistant if you want to use X2 for this (in addition to or in place of X1). Sounds like your Tx/Rx are configured correctly if you see the gain values change as you adjust the knob. Adjusting that knob while flying will change those gain values in real-time, but not your stick calibration or motion. And yes, once you get stable flight, check the assistant again to see/note what values you ended up with. Then you can map X1 back to the gimbal.

Note, you can change more than one gain value at a time, by assigning multiple gains to X1 or X2 at a time. I usually start by adjusting Pitch/Roll together, and then Yaw separately.

Btw, the first row of gain values adjust the NAZA's internal calculating sensitivity on those axis, the second row adjusts the gain on what your NAZA reads as your control input.

Whachyou talkn bout Willis
Ya lost me there.
Let's see if I understand; the values on the left(+-1000), as I move the stick are the "gain values"-which won't change. The row on the right, that has say 125% Pitch, 125% Roll, ?? Throttle, and 100% yaw, is what Naza reads as my control input value?

And, my defaults are all at 125% except for yaw-which was at 100%. Why 125%??
I already understand, the throttle is not linear-in other words, once you get near the exact center, one notch(Futaba T8J), ramps up the engines more so, than the next notch.....
But, are the Roll/Pitch/Yaw inputs linear? Or, are they "accelerated curves", meaning that at some point on the curve, just like the throttle, pitch, roll or yaw changes more rapidly?

I "spit into the wind", and just made Yaw value 75%....just for grins and giggles. I understand completely your method of fine tuning. But-I'm not ready to be fine tuned-does that make sense?
In other words-my stick skill aren't up to par yet-so a 25% reduction in yaw rate will be noticeable to me-but, won't necessarily get me into too much trouble(I always do a hover control check).

I find that when I move to the VR switch(to tilt my camera), I stop flying the aircraft momentarily-that's not a good thing.
So, to simplify-I'll manually enter the values-as the new fixed value and try that. I'm only 5 minutes from my "flying field".

But, won't be flying anymore Today-winds picked up. And, I remember a few decades ago, being a Student Helicopter Pilot, and cursing anytime I saw the winds at 10mph or more........same thing with the Phanom-I want calm winds!!


One more thing-wouldn't it be more advantageous for the new pilot to set pitch and roll at 100% Vs. 125%?? It is just a tad sensitive right now........

OH, how I wish someone could just tell me the easy way to program the Futaba T8J, so that when I "flip the B switch down-cut yaw by 50%"

Thanks for the help......old many suffering from brain overload

 

[The Editor]

You gain values with have nothing to do with 'dulling down' your yaw speed.

By changing the gain values in the Naza you are altering your PID values/settings which you do not want to do. From what you are saying you want to de-sensitize how agressive the Phantom Yaws to your stick commands yes?
Do not touch your gain settings unless you understand what they do - you run the risk of destabilising your aircraft.

Simple:
Step number 1 - DO NOT TOUCH YOUR GAIN SETTINGS!
Step number 2 - Enter your expo menu on your Futaba T8J (long press of + button, then two jogs down to D/R, Expo)
Step number 3 - Select Ch 4 which is your rudder or Yaw channel
Step number 4 - Jog down to EXP and enter -55 for <- and -55 for -> (both those are minus values)

Job done !!! You can play around with these settings to suit your preference.

If you want to add even finer control and very slow yaws in that same menu you can assign a switch to give you dual rates:

Step 1 - In the D/R,Expo menu, Channel 4 as above.... move down to SW and assign SWA
Step 2 - Switch Sw A down and then go up to D/R settings and dial in 45 for both <- and -> (both those are positive values)

Job done.

Now you will have to leave switch A off in order to arm you motors (otherwise the Naza will never see full throw and the esc's will not arm) but once you have taken off, flick SW A and you will have very smooth delicate yaws.

Hope this helps and it has NOTHING to do with gains.

 

[havasuphoto]

You gain values with have nothing to do with 'dulling down' your yaw speed.

By changing the gain values in the Naza you are altering your PID values/settings which you do not want to do. From what you are saying you want to de-sensitize how agressive the Phantom Yaws to your stick commands yes?
Do not touch your gain settings unless you understand what they do - you run the risk of destabilising your aircraft.

Simple:
Step number 1 - DO NOT TOUCH YOUR GAIN SETTINGS!
Step number 2 - Enter your expo menu on your Futaba T8J (long press of + button, then two jogs down to D/R, Expo)
Step number 3 - Select Ch 4 which is your rudder or Yaw channel
Step number 4 - Jog down to EXP and enter -55 for <- and -55 for -> (both those are minus values)

Job done !!! You can play around with these settings to suit your preference.

If you want to add even finer control and very slow yaws in that same menu you can assign a switch to give you dual rates:

Step 1 - In the D/R,Expo menu, Channel 4 as above.... move down to SW and assign SWA
Step 2 - Switch Sw A down and then go up to D/R settings and dial in 45 for both <- and -> (both those are positive values)

Job done.

Now you will have to leave switch A off in order to arm you motors (otherwise the Naza will never see full throw and the esc's will not arm) but once you have taken off, flick SW A and you will have very smooth delicate yaws.

Hope this helps and it has NOTHING to do with gains.

Thanks-I'll go back in and restore the defaults in Naza.

Simple:
Step number 1 - DO NOT TOUCH YOUR GAIN SETTINGS!
Step number 2 - Enter your expo menu on your Futaba T8J (long press of + button, then two jogs down to D/R, Expo)
Step number 3 - Select Ch 4 which is your rudder or Yaw channel
Step number 4 - Jog down to EXP and enter -55 for <- and -55 for -> (both those are minus val

When I complete the above-this is for Switch B?
And, to complete the last step, push "end"?
Will I notice this change in the Naza software? In other words, when I throw the switch down, will I see my Yaw Value change?

Thanks for the help, and warning. Laptop coming back out

EDIT: I can to the <-55 part, but not the >-55 below that. It jumps to SWB.
Again, I'm assuming this is Switch B?? So right now I have <-55, and >0%.......??

 

[The Editor]

You gain values with have nothing to do with 'dulling down' your yaw speed.

By changing the gain values in the Naza you are altering your PID values/settings which you do not want to do. From what you are saying you want to de-sensitize how agressive the Phantom Yaws to your stick commands yes?
Do not touch your gain settings unless you understand what they do - you run the risk of destabilising your aircraft.

Simple:
Step number 1 - DO NOT TOUCH YOUR GAIN SETTINGS!
Step number 2 - Enter your expo menu on your Futaba T8J (long press of + button, then two jogs down to D/R, Expo)
Step number 3 - Select Ch 4 which is your rudder or Yaw channel
Step number 4 - Jog down to EXP and enter -55 for <- and -55 for -> (both those are minus values)

Job done !!! You can play around with these settings to suit your preference.

If you want to add even finer control and very slow yaws in that same menu you can assign a switch to give you dual rates:

Step 1 - In the D/R,Expo menu, Channel 4 as above.... move down to SW and assign SWA
Step 2 - Switch Sw A down and then go up to D/R settings and dial in 45 for both <- and -> (both those are positive values)

Job done.

Now you will have to leave switch A off in order to arm you motors (otherwise the Naza will never see full throw and the esc's will not arm) but once you have taken off, flick SW A and you will have very smooth delicate yaws.

Hope this helps and it has NOTHING to do with gains.

Thanks-I'll go back in and restore the defaults in Naza.

Simple:
Step number 1 - DO NOT TOUCH YOUR GAIN SETTINGS!
Step number 2 - Enter your expo menu on your Futaba T8J (long press of + button, then two jogs down to D/R, Expo)
Step number 3 - Select Ch 4 which is your rudder or Yaw channel
Step number 4 - Jog down to EXP and enter -55 for <- and -55 for -> (both those are minus val

When I complete the above-this is for Switch B?
And, to complete the last step, push "end"?
Will I notice this change in the Naza software? In other words, when I throw the switch down, will I see my Yaw Value change?

Thanks for the help, and warning. Laptop coming back out

You do not need to assign a switch to enter in Expo settings. Expo (short for Exponential) simply dulls down the sensitivity around mid-stick. It does not change the values of anything from full left to full right it simply makes the stick feel smoother around the mid-point. The amount of Expo you dial in will make the stick more or less sensitive around this point. Zero is the defualt (what you will have now).

If you choose to go the additional step and change the Dual Rates (D/R) settings then this WILL have an impact on what you see on the Naza stick monitor. What you are effectively doing is limiting how far full throw of the stick values go. So at the moment you may see minus 1000 to plus 1000 on the Naza monitor. If you dial in D/R at say 55 you will only see the slider move to circa 55% of full travel on the Naza screen but your stick will be at full throw. This give the effect of dulling the movements down even more for better control of those zippy yaw rates.
However - the reason you have to assign a switch to any dual rate values is if you just dial them in as you default settings the Naza relies on full throw of the sticks to the corners start the motors. Obviously if you have D/R at less than 100% the Naza will never arm since it will never see the travel to full throw. This is why you need a switch. Once you have armed and taken off you can throw the switch for more delicate control.

 

[havasuphoto]

OK...well I did what you said in your instructions-but, I don't see any changes in the Naza yaw amount-it still moves full travel +/- 1000, left/right.
I was only able to do the first one as -55 on channel 4. When I tried to jog down 1 line, it skips that line and goes to SWB-so I pushed end.

So, to make it simple for me...I think I should change that -55% back to where it was before-which was 0, and start over.
I want to make either switch A or B, as a yaw cut-and understand that I must have it up or the ESC's won't fire up. But, when I want to cut the yaw rate, I can throw A? or B? down, to achieve the lower value.
How exactly do I do that?

Thanks

P.S. Remember, I'm Old(er)...so, I'm a little "slow".....thanks for the help.

 

[ericty]

Havasu,
Not sure if this is what you were looking for but I'm about to install this myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGSaSGKPr6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBQxWaSOsNM

Also, read this from DSLRPros. It has the config files to download and some additional info about what it does.
http://www.dslrpros.com/Forum/tabid/97/ ... fault.aspx

 

[havasuphoto]

Havasu,
Not sure if this is what you were looking for but I'm about to install this myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGSaSGKPr6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBQxWaSOsNM

Also, read this from DSLRPros. It has the config files to download and some additional info about what it does.
http://www.dslrpros.com/Forum/tabid/97/ ... fault.aspx

That's exactly what I want to do. But, I don't have an SD switch. Mine is not the pro model, and it doesn't except SD cards. I have the Futaba T8J. But, I believe either switch A or B is capable of doing exactly what is shown in that video.

 

[Gizmo3000]

It's a snap on the T8J, ..just adjust the D/R Expo's.
kind of awkward that DSLRpros is re-labeling it as "Fluid Pan Mode" as it's a feature to turn on.
you can also change the D/R Expo's for the right stick as well so that moving forward/back/left/right aren't too abrupt either.

 

[havasuphoto]

It's a snap on the T8J, ..just adjust the D/R Expo's.
kind of awkward that DSLRpros is re-labeling it as "Fluid Pan Mode" as it's a feature to turn on.
you can also change the D/R Expo's for the right stick as well so that moving forward/back/left/right aren't too abrupt either.

I'm a little "slow"-can you walk me through the steps I need to do with the T8J to make either switch A or B, in the down position, cut yaw rate only, to 50%?? Keep in mind I'm a total noob to this stuff. I still can't even figure out how to start the darn countdown timer on that remote!!
Thanks for the help.

 

[The Editor]

You gain values with have nothing to do with 'dulling down' your yaw speed.

By changing the gain values in the Naza you are altering your PID values/settings which you do not want to do. From what you are saying you want to de-sensitize how agressive the Phantom Yaws to your stick commands yes?
Do not touch your gain settings unless you understand what they do - you run the risk of destabilising your aircraft.

Simple:
Step number 1 - DO NOT TOUCH YOUR GAIN SETTINGS!
Step number 2 - Enter your expo menu on your Futaba T8J (long press of + button, then two jogs down to D/R, Expo)
Step number 3 - Select Ch 4 which is your rudder or Yaw channel (make sure 4 is highlighted and not the other channels)
Step number 4 - Jog down to EXP and enter -55 for <- and -55 for -> using the + and - buttons (both those are minus values)

Job done !!! You can play around with these settings to suit your preference.

If you want to add even finer control and very slow yaws in that same menu you can assign a switch to give you dual rates:

Step 1 - In the D/R,Expo menu, Channel 4 as above.... move down to SW and assign SWA (or whatever switch you want as long as it's not being used presently) - Use you jog wheel to change the 'SW' letter etc.
Assuming you have made it SW'A' then physically flip that switch. As you do you will see just under the Channel numbers the display will change to SW: Up or Down depending on whether it's..... Up, or down !
Step 2 - Switch Sw A down and then go up to D/R settings and dial in 45 for both <- and -> (both those are positive values)
As you do this you will see the graph on the right will change - the diagonal line represents your channel input from full left stick to full right. Try moving your yaw stick and you will see what I mean. You will get a vertical line that moves in unison with the stick input. Before you change the values you will see that full left or full right stick equates to the top of the line on the graph from bottom left corner to top right corner - In other words you have full throw of the channel. As you decrease your percentage in D/R you will see that graphical line move down the scale. This means that if you alter the value to say 45% you will only get 45% of the value going to that channel for full stick input.
Job done.

Now you will have to leave switch A off in order to arm you motors (otherwise the Naza will never see full throw and the esc's will not arm) but once you have taken off, flick SW A and you will have very smooth delicate yaws.

Hope this helps and it has NOTHING to do with gains.

Thanks-I'll go back in and restore the defaults in Naza.

Simple:
Step number 1 - DO NOT TOUCH YOUR GAIN SETTINGS!
Step number 2 - Enter your expo menu on your Futaba T8J (long press of + button, then two jogs down to D/R, Expo)
Step number 3 - Select Ch 4 which is your rudder or Yaw channel
Step number 4 - Jog down to EXP and enter -55 for <- and -55 for -> (both those are minus val

When I complete the above-this is for Switch B?
And, to complete the last step, push "end"?
Will I notice this change in the Naza software? In other words, when I throw the switch down, will I see my Yaw Value change?

Thanks for the help, and warning. Laptop coming back out

EDIT: I can to the <-55 part, but not the >-55 below that. It jumps to SWB. - You need to move your stick slightly to the right and it will jump to the ->
Again, I'm assuming this is Switch B?? So right now I have <-55, and >0%.......??As above, just move your stick slightly to highlight the direction. You can make it switch B or whatever switch you want... that parts up to you (assuming you have not already assigned that switch to another function

I have highlighted some points above in red.

You are right - once you have set these values you just hit 'end' on the Futaba (more than once) to come out of the menu, you do not need to 'write' them to memory or anything, once you come out of the menu they are stored.

Hope that makes things a bit clearer.

 

[Gizmo3000]

It's a snap on the T8J, ..just adjust the D/R Expo's.
kind of awkward that DSLRpros is re-labeling it as "Fluid Pan Mode" as it's a feature to turn on.
you can also change the D/R Expo's for the right stick as well so that moving forward/back/left/right aren't too abrupt either.

I'm a little "slow"-can you walk me through the steps I need to do with the T8J to make either switch A or B, in the down position, cut yaw rate only, to 50%?? Keep in mind I'm a total noob to this stuff. I still can't even figure out how to start the darn countdown timer on that remote!!
Thanks for the help.

it's a snap.

go to the 1st in the T8J
then go to D/R, Expo
*decide which switch you want to use and put it in the "on" position
then go to Ch 4
then move your rudder stick to the the left and you'll see the top D/R highlighted,. change that to 50% (or maybe try 40%)
then move the rudder stick to the right and the 2nd selection down is highlighted, change that to 50% as well

then go down to SW and change it to the switch you had chosen.

and that's it.

flip the switch up and down to see it in effect
you can also go to the Servo section to see how it works

here's a video a buddy did that shows how he changed his DR Expos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn9jzFxT8dE

 

[havasuphoto]

Thanks both of you.....I was literally losing sleep over this little "issue".
Yaw control is absolutely critical for using this thing in "film making".....and I think the correct way to do it, it to assign one switch to Null the yaw channel, for those slow, stable, sweeping pans. This will do the trick nicely.

Some of you may already be "pro's", and can do this without modifying the channel on your remote. But, I'm old, and anything that will help me in that yaw axis is greatly appreciated.

OH, and this should be a "sticky", for Futaba Remote Control instructions!!!
I'm bookmarking this page-so when I have the time, I can do this procedure and test it out.
Big Thank you again!!!

 

[havasuphoto]

Thanks both of you.....I was literally losing sleep over this little "issue".
Yaw control is absolutely critical for using this thing in "film making".....and I think the correct way to do it, it to assign one switch to Null the yaw channel, for those slow, stable, sweeping pans. This will do the trick nicely.

Some of you may already be "pro's", and can do this without modifying the channel on your remote. But, I'm old, and anything that will help me in that yaw axis is greatly appreciated.

OH, and this should be a "sticky", for Futaba Remote Control instructions!!!
I'm bookmarking this page-so when I have the time, I can do this procedure and test it out.
Big Thank you again!!!

Ok-I got them both set at 40%. I used switch B....But, I noticed if I select SWA, in the bottom, and move it down, it shows the exact same curve I just made.
So, I then tried E-same thing, it shows what B shows. I set DR at 90% and 90%, and both Expo's at -40%. With Switch B down, I can see the curve, and I can see the movement and rate of movement has changed.....so great job there.

Now in the video, you're friend described setting all the other Axis' at I think 90%, and some other numbers-that was for manual flying or atti mode. I don't want to do that just yet....so I just did channel 4-the yaw channel.

I would be nice to be able to have a 2nd curve on another switch, at say -25%. But, I don't think this remote is capable of that.

1 more question(actually 2), can I use the DJI Phantom battery in this remote? If so, what adapter plug to I need to buy?
If not, is there another size Li-Po batter I can buy to use in this Futaba remote?
Also, at what Voltage on the remote, do you guys replace or recharge the batteries?

3rd question-how do I start the darn count-down timer!!! I can set it at 5 minutes.....but can't for the life of me figure out how to turn it ON.

Thanks a lot for the help. When the winds die down, and my schedule permits, I'll go back out and test. And, I can adjust this easily enough in the field now that I've done it a few times, to fine tune the yaw.