Just out-another UK CAA Information Notice

[IrishSights]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/InformationNotice2014081.pdf

On first pass through this document it seems to concentrate on a couple of things, first, what the CAA call Aerial Work. In other words Commercial work. Including the mention of forthcoming airworthyness examinations for individual craft planning to be used in Aerial Work. The other mention is to do with vigorous pursuit of prosecution for breaking the rules. They have taken this Notice as an opportunity to state their intentions to actively persue those flaunting the ANO.

While at first glance this may seem to not affect recreational flyers, however by dwelling on subjects like Aerial work, Congested Areas, flying over people, vehicles, crowds etc it is vital that we here in the UK need to know about these subjects to insure that we do not inadvertently cross the line.

I have heard it time and again here that if you fly sensibly the CAA will not bother you and everything will be hunky dory. In my view this is a candid simplistic understatement as to what responsible flying means. We all have a responsibility to understand what all this means. I am not talking here of personal standards of safety but the CAA's standards of safety.

I have seen more than one video posted on this forum recently that clearly seriously breaks these rules including flying very close to children (by a professional photographer) and a more recent one flying over Edinburgh city centre. They may be posted by those ignorant of the law here, but ignorance will not give them any defence in court. This doc is the CAA stating their intentions - the growling dog will bite and indeed has done.

My humble suggestion is that such videos be pulled by their owners ASAP for your own sake, and be very careful what we do post.

For our US friends, it might be an indication for things to come for you guys.

Having said all that its still possible to fly for fun! Weather is reasonable tomorrow so I'm hyped!

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[Pull_Up]

Flying close to children (or any persons) is not illegal provided the children (or people) are under the control of the pilot - as they are his own kids (assuming it's the video I think you're referring to) they were under his control in pretty much every sense of the word! Without knowing the facts behind such videos then you can't make a judgement as "control" unless it's obvious flying close to random passers-by, etc.

Flying over Edinburgh, unless you have a specific CAA Permission for that flight OR a standing CAA Permission for Aerial Work and operate within its restrictions, is always going to be illegal due to the prohibition on flying over or within 150m of a congested area with a video recording camera attached.

 

[leekawey]

Hey irishSights. You have a very serious face. I think from now I will only fly above the sea to be safe :lol:

 

[IrishSights]

Flying close to children (or any persons) is not illegal provided the children (or people) are under the control of the pilot - as they are his own kids (assuming it's the video I think you're referring to) they were under his control in pretty much every sense of the word! Without knowing the facts behind such videos then you can't make a judgement as "control" unless it's obvious flying close to random passers-by, etc.

My understanding is that the 'under control' bit is 50m of any structure, vehicle or vessel not people. Its a separate paragraph on people and it says 50m of 'any person'. The 'under control' bit for people is only mentioned in regards to takeoff and landing and that's 30m. The under control bit exception during landing and takeoff I read was regarding the observer. Am I missing a bit?

I'm not judging the guy flying over children. In fact I had real good and amicable chat with the guy via PM at the time. I was purely suggesting that such videos be removed - for their sakes, not a perceived need for me to make a judgement!

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[David DJI H]

Excellent info.
Thanks for posting that.
I am glad I live out in the country.
I can't really see the point in owning one to fly in a city, cos basically, you can't!

 

[Encantador]

But take the camera off and you can do pretty much what you like, so it is clearly nothing to do with safety.

 

[Pull_Up]

My understanding is that the 'under control' bit is 50m of any structure, vehicle or vessel not people. Its a separate paragraph on people and it says 50m of 'any person'. The 'under control' bit for people is only mentioned in regards to takeoff and landing and that's 30m. The under control bit exception during landing and takeoff I read was regarding the observer. Am I missing a bit?

Yes, and so are the CAA in their information corcular - that bit is Article 167, s4 which says (and I have emphasised the important bit):

Paragraphs (2)(d) and (3) do not apply to the person in charge of the small unmanned surveillance aircraft or a person under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.

[(2)(d) says not within 50m of a person, and (3) is 30m rule during landing/take-off]

 

[IrishSights]

Ok I got that bit. But...I just remembered where I saw the bit about no persons close at takeoff and landing...its in the FPV Exemption:
" g) h) i) 5) within 50 metres of any other person, apart from the competent observer, except when taking off or landing in accordance with paragraph (h); within 30 metres of any other person, apart from the competent observer, other adjacent model operators, or any model flying club members, during take-off or landing"

If flying under the Exemption of course, then I seems to me only the observer at takeoff/landing can be close all others 30m. No mention at all of 'under the control of' exception or any other exceptions.

Boy this goes on a bit! Technically I know there is no proof he was flying FPV only camera, although lets be honest it probably was FPV. Still think the prof photographer was outside the regs flying very close to kids. I suppose we'll have to just disagree.

Time for a drink Pullup?

Sent from my Galaxy Note 8

 

[IrishSights]

But take the camera off and you can do pretty much what you like, so it is clearly nothing to do with safety.

Yes, if the camera and data recording is not fitted on your craft (CAA call it 'equipped') you have a lot more freedom, however there are still conditions to consider.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 8

 

[Pull_Up]

Ok I got that bit. But...I just remembered where I saw the bit about no persons close at takeoff and landing...its in the FPV Exemption:
" g) h) i) 5) within 50 metres of any other person, apart from the competent observer, except when taking off or landing in accordance with paragraph (h); within 30 metres of any other person, apart from the competent observer, other adjacent model operators, or any model flying club members, during take-off or landing"

If flying under the Exemption of course, then I seems to me only the observer at takeoff/landing can be close all others 30m. No mention at all of 'under the control of' exception or any other exceptions.

Boy this goes on a bit! Technically I know there is no proof he was flying FPV only camera, although lets be honest it probably was FPV. Still think the prof photographer was outside the regs flying very close to kids. I suppose we'll have to just disagree.

Time for a drink Pullup?

Sent from my Galaxy Note 8

It's past 6pm, drink is mandatory! We will have to disagree on our interpretation (although I think the statement in the ANO is perfectly clear). I could further muddy your waters regarding the FPV exemption (and I don't fly pure FPV ever) and ask what happens if I take off purely visually and only put my goggles on and go FPV once I've launched and done my test hover...

I have flown close (but above head height) to persons under my control on private land and published the resulting video. I was flying within visual range (I was about 7 feet away!) and the people were instructed not to raise arms up, etc. No breach of the ANO there whatsoever, m'lud. I've got a camping trip next week with 17 families having our annual mini-festival and we've taken over a campsite all to ourselves, so not open to the public. I'm going to take the P2 and/or the Vision and I shall be briefing all 70+ people - particularly the children - on safety (no approaching on the ground when rotors running, no throwing balls or anything towards the aircraft, no distracting me if I'm piloting, etc). I will take off in a quiet corner and will then take a load of shots overhead and flying through the site over the 4 days we're there. I will be well within 50 metres of tents, cars and people but all of them will be under my control during the flying which will be line of sight only. I also intend to use an adjacent field to give some of the older kids (8+) the chance to get hands-on with the controls in GPS mode and make some basic supervised manoeuvres. I carry £5M of liability insurance for all my flying but luckily there's no requirement in the ANO for high visibility vests to be worn yet so I don't have to dig the moth-eaten one out of my old flight bag from when I used to own and fly an AX2000 microlight and some of the airfields insisted on it being worn airside (not sure how it would have stopped a prop mincing me, but it probably ticked an insurance box!). I welcome the CAA to send someone along - if they make it the Friday afternoon they can stay for the hog roast.