Helicopter VS Drone

[DigitalSkyPilot]

How can a drone flying below 400 ft. and 9.1 miles from the nearest airport be liable if a helicopter suddenly shows up at a lower altitude and it's too late to avoid? I understand that aircraft have the right of way but if you get caught off guard below 400 ft. what happens?

 

[BigAl07]

How can a drone flying below 400 ft. and 9.1 miles from the nearest airport be liable if a helicopter suddenly shows up at a lower altitude and it's too late to avoid? I understand that aircraft have the right of way but if you get caught off guard below 400 ft. what happens?

Airplanes and helicopters CAN be below 400' AGL legally. So if the law of the land states, "sUAS must give way to any/all manned aircraft" then how can a sUAS come into contact with a manned aircraft and NOT be at fault? Even if the operator has to sacrifice the sUAS and do a full ditch that is expected. Our Un-Manned aircraft have very little risk where-as a MANNED aircraft has human beings... LIVES on board.

It's your ultimate responsibility to See-&-Avoid at all costs. Anything less is unacceptable and puts you at fault. That's purely my 2-cents and NOT legal advice.

 

[captainmilehigh]

Airplanes and helicopters CAN be below 400' AGL legally. So if the law of the land states, "sUAS must give way to any/all manned aircraft" then how can a sUAS come into contact with a manned aircraft and NOT be at fault? Even if the operator has to sacrifice the sUAS and do a full ditch that is expected. Our Un-Manned aircraft have very little risk where-as a MANNED aircraft has human beings... LIVES on board.

It's your ultimate responsibility to See-&-Avoid at all costs. Anything less is unacceptable and puts you at fault. That's purely my 2-cents and NOT legal advice.

Agree 100%. Good advice. [emoji106]

 

[WV. Rootman]

We know the legalities and what we are suppose to do. It is scary when they come so fast and there is no time to react. None of us want to hurt anybody. Many feel there needs to have something done to make it more fail safe. It is like sUAS shouldn't even be in the air. There are crazy's flying drones like there are crazy's flying helicopters.

 

[3rdof5]

Excellent thread. Following the letter of flight laws does not guarantee we will never be in the same airspace as manned aircraft and I've seen many well below 400ft. You must be very diligent flying anywhere and be ready to give way at all times, even if it ends in disaster for your AC.

 

[Stonerriflefan44]

Having good situational awareness and the use of a trained visual observer is a good tool to have in the toolbox. As a sUAS pilot you should have the VLOS of your aircraft at all time no exceptions. Not sure if this thread is in reference to helicopter video on a FL beach. I've watched the video many times, IMHO the Mavic pilot would've be 100% at fault if a collision occurred.

 

[Loz]

Having good situational awareness and the use of a trained visual observer is a good tool to have in the toolbox. As a sUAS pilot you should have the VLOS of your aircraft at all time no exceptions. Not sure if this thread is in reference to helicopter video on a FL beach. I've watched the video many times, IMHO the Mavic pilot would've be 100% at fault if a collision occurred.

“Trained visual observer”, curious what is that exactly? (know what an observer is)

 

[BigAl07]

“Trained visual observer”, curious what is that exactly? (know what an observer is)

If you're going to utilize a VO with Part 107 operations you need to make sure they have been briefed on and understand what is expected of them. We have a full VO course and test for our Emergency Services dept.

 

[Stonerriflefan44]

“Trained visual observer”, curious what is that exactly? (know what an observer is)

As stated in the post above, a remote pilot should train or qualify the VO they will be working with. Usually done within an hour tops including a few practice flights. But depending on the complexity of the job there may be more formal training involved, such as job site safety, hazard analysis, being able to communicate with field crews and relaying critical information back to the PIC.

 

[Loz]

As stated in the post above, a remote pilot should train or qualify the VO they will be working with. Usually done within an hour tops including a few practice flights. But depending on the complexity of the job there may be more formal training involved, such as job site safety, hazard analysis, being able to communicate with field crews and relaying critical information back to the PIC.

Thanks for replies, understand what you have both said. Would it be true that this is a non-legal, and optional role (I’m not questioning the undoubted value and benefit of an observer and if they are trained even better, to assist PIC). ie in the unfortunate event if something serious goes wrong, the pilot alone has sole responsibility (and liability)? you see why I’m asking about trained? Is it material (again, not doubting value), I’m asking only to understand.

[Edit I’m not US based, hence interested in how others do things]

Thanks

 

[Stonerriflefan44]

Thanks for replies, understand what you have both said. Would it be true that this is a non-legal, and optional role (I’m not questioning the undoubted value and benefit of an observer and if they are trained even better, to assist PIC). ie in the unfortunate event if something serious goes wrong, the pilot alone has sole responsibility (and liability)? you see why I’m asking about trained? Is it material (again, not doubting value), I’m asking only to understand.

[Edit I’m not US based, hence interested in how others do things]

Thanks

Yes the PIC assumes the liability of the entire operation. If an unfortunate accident occurred and the FAA and NTSB get involved, documents showing that you provided training to your operation staff would benefit the PIC.

I understand how hobbyist feel when it comes to this subject. You pay good money for a drone and really enjoy it and feel they have a right to fly where and when they want as long as;
A. The person was flying below 400ft.
B. Was not in controlled airspace.
C. Flying legally as a hobbyist as long as they aren't hurting anyone.

But as a hobbyist, in my opinion you have to be extremely diligent when flying. We have seen countless videos of people doing stupid things that hurts our hobby and industry. Again in my opinion I feel that hobbyist should take a basic airmans course (not a part 107 cert.) in order to own and operate a sUAS.

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks for replies, understand what you have both said. Would it be true that this is a non-legal, and optional role (I’m not questioning the undoubted value and benefit of an observer and if they are trained even better, to assist PIC). ie in the unfortunate event if something serious goes wrong, the pilot alone has sole responsibility (and liability)? you see why I’m asking about trained? Is it material (again, not doubting value), I’m asking only to understand.

[Edit I’m not US based, hence interested in how others do things]

Thanks

Yes this is optional in most situations. When we developed our SOP (before Section 333 and long before Part 107) we felt that a VO was not an option and built that into our business from day one. I would consider it a "Best Practice" option.

If you're fling anywhere for any reasin it's a VERY good idea to have a VO to allow for the RPIC to take their eyes off the aircraft to look at the display device and make changes to settings/parameters. Having an additional set of eyes to scan the airspace and watch for conflicts (in the air and from the ground) is invaluable. I can't tell you how many times my VO has picked up on something before I did and possibly saved the flight/aircraft.

 

[Loz]

Good stuff thanks guys, thanks for your inputs. Our AU regulations are under review at this time too, interesting times - I too am a firm supporter of some training, most particularly to avoid the ‘I didn’t know / take the time to inform myself’ pilots putting others at risk.

 

[TuT]

Phantom 2 and Manual Mode was my friend. I used to switch to manual and let the Phantom drop, then rev the motors closer to the ground. With the removal of manual mode that option is no longer available. Now your only option is to cut your motors and crash in this situation. It's a shame DJI has removed such useful features in the chase for $$$

 

[grego122]

How can a drone flying below 400 ft. and 9.1 miles from the nearest airport be liable if a helicopter suddenly shows up at a lower altitude and it's too late to avoid? I understand that aircraft have the right of way but if you get caught off guard below 400 ft. what happens

 

[grego122]

You can hear a helicopter coming for some distance just drop down if you hear one
till you know where it is is a good way to avoid any problems. I live with a high voltage
Power lines in my back yard. They come and inspect it all the time with a helicopter and
I hear him a long time before he shows up.

 

[WV. Rootman]

You can hear a helicopter coming for some distance just drop down if you hear one
till you know where it is is a good way to avoid any problems. I live with a high voltage
Power lines in my back yard. They come and inspect it all the time with a helicopter and
I hear him a long time before he shows up.

That might be because they are going slow inspecting something. The ones crossing my ridge, are flying low because my ridge is sticking up in the sky and they just don't care to fly higher. They are moving fast to get from point A to point B.

 

[Michael Gordon]

In addition to "see and avoid" I also listen on the local CTAF frequency (122.8 MHz is commonly used) since I fly in class G airspace. Whether you'll hear any announcement depends on your proximity to an airport of any consequence but I hear radio traffic long before I hear the airplane or helicopter.

Watch out for the MOA's (military operating area) and MTR's (military training routes) I was driving on a little dirt road and two F-15's came low and fast; well within the altitude a drone can reach but probably above 400 feet AGL (barely!). They were flying a low altitude high speed military training route IR302. Dont fly a drone at all in the path of an "IR" or "VR" as shown on your friendly neighborhood sectional chart.

Use the website SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts and enable the "drotam" layer (Drone Notams). For instance right now there's a cluster of TFR's (Temporary Flight Restrictions) around Phoenix, AZ - the entire metro area will be a no-fly zone, at all, for any drone hobby or part 107, without special clearance.

Part 107 drone operators know about TFR's but hobbyists generally won't. The smartphone app "b4ufly" will reveal TFR's.