Choices:Tarrot vs Zenmuse vs Arris

[mblitch]

I am going to be making my Phantom purchase very soon and am still very much undecided on the particular Gimbal to get. In short, I am trying to ascertain what gimbal to purchase.

The ARRIS CM2000 gimbal v4 is only $299
Tarot gimbal $190 (http://tarot-rc-heli.com/Tarot_RC_GOPRO ... =TRCH68A00)
Zenmuse $700

I'm still trying to learn what is plug and play and what requires work. Even the Zenmuse has me confused with the new board update.

That is a huge price difference, and the Zenmuse problems concerns me. If you, as an experienced flyer, were to make a new purchase, what would you chose? If something like the Tarot goes bad, replacement is a hassle, but saving $500 from the start would be nice.

Are they essentially, assuming it works and there are not technical problems which are unexpected, essentially about the same? I'd like tilt control as well if that is a particular feature that eliminates any of the choices.

 

[Gizmo3000]

Re: Coices:Tarrot vs Zenmuse vs Arris

This question has been posed many, many times.

Zenmuse is good, but obviously overpriced when you can purchase a Tarot for 1/4 the price and get basically the same results
btw, this is the link for the most ideal price.
http://www.tarot-rc.com/index.php?main_ ... ts_id=1029

the only catch is that you might have to drill holes to get the Tarot to fit your Phantom.
..tho there might be some people selling on Ebay with mounts that have been modified to fit Phantom as well.

 

[Audaciter]

Re: Coices:Tarrot vs Zenmuse vs Arris

It would be hard for any one person to tell you which one is going to suit you best, without having had all 3 devices to test.
Maybe a dealer, such as UAV Advertising might have more insight.

The better question would be; Is the Phantom the right vehicle for your aerial video needs ?

I think a lot of people make their first quadcopter decision based on looks, rather than capabilities.

The Phantom, with it's nicely enclosed shell, looks like it should be better than a bare framed quadcopter .

I also think that the Phantom's size makes it look like the ideal machine to carry a tiny little GoPro camera.

It gets to be more than just a camera and gimbal, when you view your video, and discover that your shots are not lined up well, or you are getting vibrations, jello, etc.

Then you are talking adding FPV,and OSD, so you can look through the camera's lens, while you record, to make sure you capture well composed video and still make it back and land safely before the battery dies.


When you add everything together, it raises your expectations of quality, and I personally don't think the Phantom is
up to the task.
There are much better choices available . Bigger, and uglier, but better.

 

[jumanoc]

Re: Coices:Tarrot vs Zenmuse vs Arris

I have to say that my Arris have been great since unboxed, even with a second camera. No changes in parameteres except for set active the INC mode for keeping Tilt position where I want.
Mine was really Plug and Fly (just had to connect to Naza Assitant for activating gimbal and manual titl mode setting).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dasEgmNKc84[/youtube]

 

[Gizmo3000]

Re: Coices:Tarrot vs Zenmuse vs Arris

I agree, the Phantom is far from being an ideal aerial video platform, with it's little 330size frame and all. (that's why I'm moving up to a larger F450 frame with bigger motors)
But that still shouldn't deter owners from wanting to get shake-free video, and these low-cost gimbals do an ok job of it.
The motors are capable as well, (not great, but capable)

I've actually had much success getting decent footage out of my Arris,.
just last weekend i was able to shoot some stuff for my friends movie trailer, and it came out ok (until I crashed and broke my Arris controller board )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLYsa6vx ... iIaaxxyKTA

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLYsa6vxcFM&feature=c4-overview&list=UUo_jZFZW2-lfFiIaaxxyKTA[/youtube]

 

[mblitch]

I may go with the DJI Phantom as a starter experience. My other preferred option would be the TBS Discovery kind of units with the main advantage of having the props and nacelles completely out of frame. But at this point I'm leaning to the DJI Phantom because of the large community and access to information and aid. The TBS Discovery seems a good system, but until I know what I'm doing I'll try the dumber 'plug and play'.

I just do not have the model building experience (just about zero) to put together something from scratch as I wouldn't know what I'm missing. I was just trying to see if I was missing something that made the zenmuse better. It seems all have the ability to tilt through a control unit (Futaba t8 series), so it is reliability and repair costs that seem to be key.

I don't care about look at this point and have even wondered, if it necessary to fly the DJI Phantom with the top shell. IIt seems it would shave off a few ounces.

 

[mblitch]

Re: Coices:Tarrot vs Zenmuse vs Arris

I have to say that my Arris have been great since unboxed, even with a second camera. No changes in parameteres except for set active the INC mode for keeping Tilt position where I want.
Mine was really Plug and Fly (just had to connect to Naza Assitant for activating gimbal and manual titl mode setting).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dasEgmNKc84[/youtube]

Because of the Zenmuse problems (and extra $500 cost) I'm leaning toward the Arris v4 or Tarot. Do you have a build log of what you set up prehaps, especially how you land the unit with the camer sticking below the landing struts? DSLrpros just last night announced a 'FPV field kit [http://www.dslrpros.com/Products/tabid/94/ProductID/157/language/en-US/Default.aspx] for around $299, but the monitor seems pretty darn small. Would you share the parts/system you used?

I'm going to forgo the FPV goggles for now since I plan to stick with LOS (line of sight) and like the monitor on the control system integration. But I'm guessing I can just switch to goggles if I want but just changing where the receiver plug goes. But is it also not possible to split the video signal to both a monitor and goggle, so if necessary the goggle can be dropped in flight and still have a FPV view via the monitor if necessary?

 

[jumanoc]

Re: Coices:Tarrot vs Zenmuse vs Arris

Because of the Zenmuse problems (and extra $500 cost) I'm leaning toward the Arris v4 or Tarot. Do you have a build log of what you set up prehaps, especially how you land the unit with the camer sticking below the landing struts? DSLrpros just last night announced a 'FPV field kit [http://www.dslrpros.com/Products/tabid/94/ProductID/157/language/en-US/Default.aspx] for around $299, but the monitor seems pretty darn small. Would you share the parts/system you used?

I'm going to forgo the FPV goggles for now since I plan to stick with LOS (line of sight) and like the monitor on the control system integration. But I'm guessing I can just switch to goggles if I want but just changing where the receiver plug goes. But is it also not possible to split the video signal to both a monitor and goggle, so if necessary the goggle can be dropped in flight and still have a FPV view via the monitor if necessary?

OK here is it:

1) I use FatShark Attitude with goggles you can output (extend) video/audio signals to 7" LCD monitor (3 way vision: LOS, VIDEO AND GOGGLES)
2) You don't need anything for Arris install. I extended landing gear for using the second camera under gimbal for "watching what i'm filming", but also can move the mini camera to another fix positions using velcro.

Check here my diagrams I did in anoter forum.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25052727&postcount=4

 

[Sac D]

Re: Coices:Tarrot vs Zenmuse vs Arris

It would be hard for any one person to tell you which one is going to suit you best, without having had all 3 devices to test.
Maybe a dealer, such as UAV Advertising might have more insight.

The better question would be; Is the Phantom the right vehicle for your aerial video needs ?

I think a lot of people make their first quadcopter decision based on looks, rather than capabilities.

The Phantom, with it's nicely enclosed shell, looks like it should be better than a bare framed quadcopter .

I also think that the Phantom's size makes it look like the ideal machine to carry a tiny little GoPro camera.

It gets to be more than just a camera and gimbal, when you view your video, and discover that your shots are not lined up well, or you are getting vibrations, jello, etc.

Then you are talking adding FPV,and OSD, so you can look through the camera's lens, while you record, to make sure you capture well composed video and still make it back and land safely before the battery dies.


When you add everything together, it raises your expectations of quality, and I personally don't think the Phantom is
up to the task.
There are much better choices available . Bigger, and uglier, but better.

You make all this sound like an expensive proposition, no matter which way one goes with it... oh wait, you're right IT IS! LOL

My strategy has been to only buy "top end" stuff when necessary... especially when it is clear-cut with gimbals. You can buy several Tarots for the price of a single Zen.

 

[Gizmo3000]

I may go with the DJI Phantom as a starter experience. My other preferred option would be the TBS Discovery kind of units with the main advantage of having the props and nacelles completely out of frame. But at this point I'm leaning to the DJI Phantom because of the large community and access to information and aid. The TBS Discovery seems a good system, but until I know what I'm doing I'll try the dumber 'plug and play'.

I just do not have the model building experience (just about zero) to put together something from scratch as I wouldn't know what I'm missing. I was just trying to see if I was missing something that made the zenmuse better. It seems all have the ability to tilt through a control unit (Futaba t8 series), so it is reliability and repair costs that seem to be key.

I don't care about look at this point and have even wondered, if it necessary to fly the DJI Phantom with the top shell. IIt seems it would shave off a few ounces.

you have to fly the Phantom with the top shell on,. as it contains/holds the GPS unit.

It's a tough one. because here DJI came out with a very successful ready-to-fly quad, but they really didn't design it to be expandable or customizable. swapping out a motor means removing the shell and doing soldering,. removing the shell is a hassle. the Tx had a secret potentiometer,.you can't use bigger battery (and even 3rd party batteries can be tricky). etc.
bust an arm and you need to replace the entire shell
But it does look nifty compared to all the other quads out there that look home-built.
and it does fit nicely in carrying case.
however, only the inner NAZA can easily be re-used should you choose to build a larger, more capable quad.

But ask any experienced Phantom flyer, (like myself) what they would do if they could start over again, and they might tell you that they'd do things differently.

I learned a heck of a lot with my Phantom, but it'd definitely time to move up. since I can't use much of the Phantom for a new quad, I'm just going to keep it as backup.

But when you look at the prices,. once can build a F330/f450 for about the same price of a Phantom.
and it's not really that difficult if you do your homework.

it's a bit of the chicken and the egg scenario. a Phantom might seem easy as heck and ready to fly, but once you get one you soon learn that there's a LOT to learn about these quads. - and once you learn about them, you realize they're not all that complicated to build. the 450 comes as a full kit,. just add transmitter and batteries and charger.

 

[Gizmo3000]

Also,. while the parts of the F330/450 are not exactly the same,. they really are the exact same craft DNA.
the Phantom community is big, but 95% of the info you learn form this site can transfer over to operating any other DJI quad.

 

[martcerv]

Top shell is also needed to give the frame extra stiffness not only the gps so if thinking of doing that you'd be better off just using a f450 frame rather then a phantom.

From what I have seen the zenmuse is easily the best performer in terms of stability, still has some teething problems and is much more expensive then the others.

The Arris looks pretty good but from what I have seen the tarot performs better and is cheaper so between those 2 from what I have seen I would easily pick the tarot. I cant see any advantages of the arris over the tarot and is quite a bit cheaper so before tarot aris looked the best alternative bht nit any more in my eyes.

Now comparing Tarot to Zenmuse if they were the same price it would be a no brainer for me and Id go the DJI but with the big price difference it makes the tarot more tempting. I still lean towards the DJI as I would want the best performance and price isnt my key issue but would possibly get the tarot first to try a gimbal before spending the cash on the zenmuse if I find I really want it still. If I go that way then I will try the tarot and once I upgrade to the dji I will use the tarot to play around with as a handheld setup.

All my opinions are based on others videos using each of the 3 as I haven't used any yet but we would mostly all be in the same position if looking to get our first gimbal.

 

[Audaciter]

The TBS Discovery that you mentioned, is one that I am building now. It is based on the FW450 frame, but stretched out
so you have more room, and distance between the reciever, and transmitter.
Team Black Sheep has come out with a new one, with built in brushless gimbal. Also the QAV550 is a similar design, and
has a brushless gimbal.
These kits should be available ready to fly, as well as in kit form.

The Phantom is a great platform to play with, and get comfortable flying with, but as Gizmo3000 said, you will learn
a lot quickly, and outgrow the Phantom.

Unless you can sell the Phantom, and all the "stuff" you end up buying for it, for close to retail value, (not likely), then
you would be better off getting something decent to start with. Especially if you want to get a case, extra batteries,
FPV equipment, etc, etc.

 

[mblitch]

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. It seems that I will be better off with either a TBS Discovery or F450. The editing out of the nacelles and props would be a pain and time consuming, but it seems the versatility is better in working on the device. I assume your point of the distance between transmitter and receiver is a potential, but still yet undetermined, cause for 'fly aways'? I like that these designs also reduce the frame weight, but the crashing through brush would offer less protection for electronics.

I'll still probably need to start with a kit already put together and then upgrade and build from there. I don't want to try to build and learn everything from scratch since even if I do something wrong, I probably won't even know how to figure it out.

DJI would have had my money for the Phantom if it wasn't for their lack of addressing issues that people have had, especially a total lack of comment regarding Zenmuse problems. I do tend to be a consumer who bases decisions as to how a company treats its current clients.

Now to start a new decision process. Being an experienced photographer I too see a lot of newbies come to forums not knowing anything, so I can understand both sides, but sometimes those experienced people can be key to helping you get started. With experience, it is easier to convey "If I were to start all over using the knowledge I now have, you should get xxx, yy, zzz ...".

So with my stated intent of wanting to do video without prop blocking is my assessment of the TBS Discovery as a better platform along with the FAT shark with monitor, Futaba T8 series (maybe T8FG), and Arris v4 gimbal among the better places to start? What places might offer a good 'complete' package?

 

[edunwody]

There many of us out here that are happy with the Phantom, me included.
I'm glad I made the purchase but I think I'm ready to move up. I was waiting to install my Zenmuse but am being pulled to go ahead and upgrade before I install. Phantom is a great way to learn but you are limited on what extras you can install.

E


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gizmo3000]

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. It seems that I will be better off with either a TBS Discovery or F450. The editing out of the nacelles and props would be a pain and time consuming, but it seems the versatility is better in working on the device. I assume your point of the distance between transmitter and receiver is a potential, but still yet undetermined, cause for 'fly aways'? I like that these designs also reduce the frame weight, but the crashing through brush would offer less protection for electronics.

I'll still probably need to start with a kit already put together and then upgrade and build from there. I don't want to try to build and learn everything from scratch since even if I do something wrong, I probably won't even know how to figure it out.

DJI would have had my money for the Phantom if it wasn't for their lack of addressing issues that people have had, especially a total lack of comment regarding Zenmuse problems. I do tend to be a consumer who bases decisions as to how a company treats its current clients.

Now to start a new decision process. Being an experienced photographer I too see a lot of newbies come to forums not knowing anything, so I can understand both sides, but sometimes those experienced people can be key to helping you get started. With experience, it is easier to convey "If I were to start all over using the knowledge I now have, you should get xxx, yy, zzz ...".

So with my stated intent of wanting to do video without prop blocking is my assessment of the TBS Discovery as a better platform along with the FAT shark with monitor, Futaba T8 series (maybe T8FG), and Arris v4 gimbal among the better places to start? What places might offer a good 'complete' package?