400 ft limit

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I could have swore I read somewhere that the 3.0 on the plus has a 400 ft altitude limit
Can anyone confirm or tell me more about this
 
mr_3_0_5 said:
I could have swore I read somewhere that the 3.0 on the plus has a 400 ft altitude limit
Can anyone confirm or tell me more about this

Maybe you read it here?http://www.phantompilots.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11899
 
It's got to be the 120m non-GPS limit you're talking about. They would never cripple the whole platform with that restriction (would they?!) I'm still on V2.0 and am not about to upgrade. Looking forward to someone posting here that V3.0 works as V2.0 (essentially unlimited height and distance as long as you override the defaults in the assistant, and without the 3300' limit in the app).
 
nhoover said:
It's got to be the 120m non-GPS limit you're talking about. They would never cripple the whole platform with that restriction (would they?!) I'm still on V2.0 and am not about to upgrade. Looking forward to someone posting here that V3.0 works as V2.0 (essentially unlimited height and distance as long as you override the defaults in the assistant, and without the 3300' limit in the app).

The only time a P2V Plus, or a P2V on the new v3 firmware will have no height limitation is when you're not within 5 miles of an airport and you have good GPS signal. If you're either near an airport listed as class a or b by dji, or have no gps signal you're max altitude will be limited to 394 feet or less. And if within 1 1/2 miles of an airport you wont be able to take off at all. And there's no way at this time of shutting this new "feature" off. Nice huh? I"m staying far away from the P2V+. Only thing it would add for me is bricking my Phantom, and giving me a better stabilized camera. My P2V is already modified so I get more range than a stock P2V Plus, and the camera specs are the same other than the stabilization.
 
The only time a P2V Plus, or a P2V on the new v3 firmware will have no height limitation is when you're not within 5 miles of an airport and you have good GPS signal. If you're either near an airport listed as class a or b by dji, or have no gps signal you're max altitude will be limited to 394 feet or less. And if within 1 1/2 miles of an airport you wont be able to take off at all. And there's no way at this time of shutting this new "feature" off. Nice huh? I"m staying far away from the P2V+. Only thing it would add for me is bricking my Phantom, and giving me a better stabilized camera. My P2V is already modified so I get more range than a stock P2V Plus, and the camera specs are the same other than the stabilization.

Why are so many pissed off about the 5 mile airport flight limit?

It's not safe to fly within that range anyway, so what's the big issue?
 
I have ordered the phantom vision + few days ago and honestly I'm thinking of cancel my order because of the 'no fly zone' feature. I live in malta which is only 7 miles wide by 15 miles length. My country has a very high density and I only live 1 km away from the one and only airport we have. This means that I cannot even use this phantom in my own garden. I have to go to the other side of the country in order to fly it as I want :(

I know that this is a safety feature but I hope that there will be a way to disable the gps or this particular 'no fly zone' feature.


Regards
 
rmifsud said:
I have ordered the phantom vision + few days ago and honestly I'm thinking of cancel my order because of the 'no fly zone' feature. I live in malta which is only 7 miles wide by 15 miles length. My country has a very high density and I only live 1 km away from the one and only airport we have. This means that I cannot even use this phantom in my own garden. I have to go to the other side of the country in order to fly it as I want :(

I know that this is a safety feature but I hope that there will be a way to disable the gps or this particular 'no fly zone' feature.


Regards

This is just a hunch, but the P2V+ is just the newest model and so it's first to get the restriction. Can't see how this restriction shouldn't apply to other multicopters also.....expect the same restrictions to trickle down to all the models eventually.
 
semaj said:
The only time a P2V Plus, or a P2V on the new v3 firmware will have no height limitation is when you're not within 5 miles of an airport and you have good GPS signal. If you're either near an airport listed as class a or b by dji, or have no gps signal you're max altitude will be limited to 394 feet or less. And if within 1 1/2 miles of an airport you wont be able to take off at all. And there's no way at this time of shutting this new "feature" off. Nice huh? I"m staying far away from the P2V+. Only thing it would add for me is bricking my Phantom, and giving me a better stabilized camera. My P2V is already modified so I get more range than a stock P2V Plus, and the camera specs are the same other than the stabilization.

Why are so many pissed off about the 5 mile airport flight limit?

It's not safe to fly within that range anyway, so what's the big issue?
The reason that I am pissed off is because instead of using education to imrpove safe flying they have tried to simply stop us. The 'feature' is so poorly implemented that it is farcical. As an example, the two closest airports to me happen to be two different classes. My local airport is class b and the centre point they picked is the main terminal building which means that the zero fly zone does not even cover one end of the runway - are they saying to me that because I am able to fly there that it is safe to do so ? The second airport is class a and the restrictions there cover whole swathes of urban areas which are nowhere near any flight paths so if I lived there I would be very pissed off.
 
Here's directly from FAA on FAA web site:


Busting Myths about the FAA and Unmanned Aircraft
http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=76240

You may not fly a UAS for commercial purposes by claiming that you’re operating according to the Model Aircraft guidelines (below 400 feet, 3 miles from an airport, away from populated areas.)



Unmanned Aircraft (UAS) Questions and Answers
http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/uas/uas_faq/



Model Aircraft Operating Standards
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... /91-57.pdf

See section 3.c.
Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet above the surface.
When flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify the airport operator,
or when an air traffic facility is located at the airport, notify the control
tower, or flight service station.



Fact Sheet - Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS)
http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/new ... wsId=14153
 
Given 400 feet is the current FAA guideline, it wouldn't surprise me for DJI to update Firmware to impose a across the board 400 limit.
 
This is another take from a blogger / reporter...

http://gigaom.com/2013/12/08/so-you-wan ... -law-says/


Here's the relevant part:

While the FAA suggested in 1981 that model aircraft operators fly below 400 feet, the document was just an advisory, and two aviation lawyers contacted by Gigaom said the agency has no authority below 700 feet — for now.


and


But even this point is under debate. As Wired reported, the first lawsuit pitting the FAA against a civilian drone operator is underway in Virginia, where a photographer got in trouble with the agency for flying a drone over the campus of a university that had paid for his services.

The FAA fined him $10,000 for operating an aircraft in a reckless manner, but the photographer is challenging the ruling on technical grounds; saying the FAA didn’t conduct proper hearings, and that the agency’s regulations over commercial drones are invalid. The outcome of the case has implications not just for commercial photographers, but for a thriving drone industry related to farming, surveillance and other activities.

So while you might have law on your side, do you have the financial resources to fight it?
 
yawnalot29 said:
This is another take from a blogger / reporter...

http://gigaom.com/2013/12/08/so-you-wan ... -law-says/


Here's the relevant part:

While the FAA suggested in 1981 that model aircraft operators fly below 400 feet, the document was just an advisory, and two aviation lawyers contacted by Gigaom said the agency has no authority below 700 feet — for now.


and


But even this point is under debate. As Wired reported, the first lawsuit pitting the FAA against a civilian drone operator is underway in Virginia, where a photographer got in trouble with the agency for flying a drone over the campus of a university that had paid for his services.

The FAA fined him $10,000 for operating an aircraft in a reckless manner, but the photographer is challenging the ruling on technical grounds; saying the FAA didn’t conduct proper hearings, and that the agency’s regulations over commercial drones are invalid. The outcome of the case has implications not just for commercial photographers, but for a thriving drone industry related to farming, surveillance and other activities.

So while you might have law on your side, do you have the financial resources to fight it?

Good info at the time, but out of date now that the case has a ruling (albeit one that has been appealed).

Current info: http://dronelawjournal.com/
 
From Forbes magazine

FAA Files Appeal Brief In Closely-Watched Drone Pilot Case
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/ ... ilot-case/

The relevant quote from the article:

The FAA raises two issues in its brief: 1. that the judge erred in determining that Pirker’s small drone was not an “aircraft”, as defined by the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) and 2. that the judge erred in determining that the small drone’s operation was not subject to the FARs.


and


Since I’m not a lawyer, I checked with Loretta Alkalay, former top attorney for the FAA in New York and an adjunct professor at Vaughn College of Aeronautics (where we co-teach) what she thought of the FAA’s legal arguments. This is her response.


“The FAA clearly has the statutory authority to regulate commercial unmanned aerial vehicles of any size. (Congress recently took away the FAA’s authority to regulate model aircraft operated for hobby or recreational purposes.) The question is whether it has properly promulgated regulations to do so. I do not believe it has when it comes to small UAVs to the extent that they can be considered model aircraft, as in the case of Mr. Pirker’s. Although I am sympathetic to the FAA wanting to prohibit unsafe operation of these aerial vehicles that may endanger persons or property – as it clearly believes was the case here- it has to do so via properly enacted regulations.

Unfortunately, the FAA created its own legal confusion by relying on advisory (as opposed to regulatory) methods for distinguishing model aircraft (which could include the small drone operated by Mr. Pirker) from other aircraft beginning in 1981. Its attempt to retroactively distinguish model aircraft based on the nature of their operations (commercial vs. non-commercial) is unenforceable as that distinction has only been made via public notices (first starting in 2007) and not by rulemaking. Since notices are not rules, they are legally unenforceable.

Fortunately, the remedy for the problem created by the FAA also lies with the FAA. And that is to issue legally promulgated rules to cover small, commercially-operated drones.”
 
My profession is no where near photography or flying. This would be my first RC toy of any kind.

That said, here's a Forbes article for Drone operator for commericial use:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/ ... s-to-bust/

FAA does control all the airspace from the ground up, including airspace below 400 feet.

Commercial UAS flights are not ok over private property even if below 400 feet. Commercial operation of drones requires a certified aircraft, a licensed pilot and operating approval.

Commercial operation of drones is not a gray area of FAA regulations. All aircraft – manned or unmanned – must have some type of FAA approval. (Model aircraft flown as a hobby or for recreational purposes are excepted but must be operated in accordance with model aircraft guidelines and away from populated areas.)

The FAA has a number of enforcement tools to stop unauthorized commercial drone operations and it does not believe there are too many operations for it to stop.

Commercial UAS operations will not be ok after September 30, 2015 – unless the FAA issues appropriate regulations. The FAA states that it expects to publish a proposed rule for small drones – those under 55 pounds – later this year which is likely to include provisions for commercial operations.

The FAA disputes that it is lagging behind other countries in its commercial approval of drones.

FAA’s 30,000 drones by 2030 prediction is outdated and the agency now predicts as many as 7500 small commercial UAS by 2018, assuming the necessary regulations are in place. This figure may be updated when new rules are proposed later this year.
 
Your best practice in the United States is to either certify your aircraft and become a licensed commercial UAS (unmanned aircraft system) operator. See the FAA fact sheet about UAS was released in January here:

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/new ... wsId=14153

Model aircraft guidance circular:
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... /91-57.pdf

I am a licensed pilot as well as a HUGE phantom fan & pilot. Small aircraft (including ultralights without a cockpit) can fly in class G airspace (0-700 feet uncontrolled airspace) regularly, the same airspace we fly our phantoms in. If one of our phantoms gets smacked by a Cessna going 110 knots or an ultralight pilot doing 60 knots, the results could be disastrous and deadly. You will have damaged property and possibly killed someone, along with our awesome hobby.

I have my firmware set on a maximum altitude of 121 meters (400 feet). If my phantom is ever involved in a collision, the firmware will prove I was within the FAA guidelines. I also maintain LOS (line of sight) at all times. If I am flying FPV, I have a spotter maintaining LOS for me.

If you want to go higher, I suggest three things to be as safe as possible: a spotter looking for other aircraft, a call to local flight controllers to let them know where and when you will be operating (skydivers do this all the time) and have a transceiver capable of transmitting on UNICOM or MULTICOM (122.700 mHz/ 122.900 MHz) to announce your intentions while you are flying. You can speak to the pilots at your nearest airport and find out what frequency they commonly monitor. I recommend a Yaesu FTA-230 available here: http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/17733

One day, a really cheap ADS-B transponder will be available, along with a logic board to avoid other aircraft with ADS-B transponders. Until then, you are flying blind and a danger to airmen if you bust 400 feet or go out of LOS. Period.

Don't ruin this awesome hobby for the rest of us.
 
DrJoe said:
Your best practice in the United States is to either certify your aircraft and become a licensed commercial UAS (unmanned aircraft system) operator. See the FAA fact sheet about UAS was released in January here:

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/new ... wsId=14153

Model aircraft guidance circular:
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... /91-57.pdf

I am a licensed pilot as well as a HUGE phantom fan & pilot. Small aircraft (including ultralights without a cockpit) can fly in class G airspace (0-700 feet uncontrolled airspace) regularly, the same airspace we fly our phantoms in. If one of our phantoms gets smacked by a Cessna going 110 knots or an ultralight pilot doing 60 knots, the results could be disastrous and deadly. You will have damaged property and possibly killed someone, along with our awesome hobby.

I have my firmware set on a maximum altitude of 121 meters (400 feet). If my phantom is ever involved in a collision, the firmware will prove I was within the FAA guidelines. I also maintain LOS (line of sight) at all times. If I am flying FPV, I have a spotter maintaining LOS for me.

If you want to go higher, I suggest three things to be as safe as possible: a spotter looking for other aircraft, a call to local flight controllers to let them know where and when you will be operating (skydivers do this all the time) and have a transceiver capable of transmitting on UNICOM or MULTICOM (122.700 mHz/ 122.900 MHz) to announce your intentions while you are flying. You can speak to the pilots at your nearest airport and find out what frequency they commonly monitor. I recommend a Yaesu FTA-230 available here: http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/17733

One day, a really cheap ADS-B transponder will be available, along with a logic board to avoid other aircraft with ADS-B transponders. Until then, you are flying blind and a danger to airmen if you bust 400 feet or go out of LOS. Period.

Don't ruin this awesome hobby for the rest of us.

I think your post has caused me to think more than any other.

I have never owned or flew a quad, yet, but my Plus is on the way. I'm reading as much as I can before it arrives. I've read other mishaps and warnings but none has had the effect of yours. It's going to be a big responsibility.

I think I may speak for all of us when I say we always want to go faster, farther and higher. But with that comes a responsibility. I like your idea of a spotter looking for other aircraft. I will do that whenever possible. But, I also think it's a big sky and the chance of my what, 24" aircraft, being in the same place at the same time as some other aircraft is quite small. Possible, yes. Likely, no. Still, your words are true and your time has been worthwhile. Thanks for posting this.
 
Thanks Phil. Just be as safe as you can. Just wait untill you get this thing, its ridiculously cool, have a blast with it.
 
This can of worms is only going to get worse as the months and years go by, with the leaps in technology we're seeing. I think the best thing we can do is to fly safely and be courteous around people that are in the area your flying in. We want to get the general public on our side. This is just a grown ups hobby for 99% of us, and great one at that. I'll be flying it at my bluegrass festival in 6 weeks. Mostly hippies so I don't think I'll get an bad reactions but I'll let you know. I want to shoot a lot of areal footage of the campground and festival for future promotion but for the most part flying my week old Phantom 2Z with GoPro Black+ is going to be a fun hobby.
 

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